Why do qc delays fade too quickly in terms of volume?

[purp]

Hi guys, I checked out the forum and found this thread -

Delay feedback issue/question

I can’t find a delay or delay setting that really does 100% feedback. Am I just not using the proper delay? They all degrade away. I’ve even tried putting a Stereo Digital DDL after a Dual DDL to see if I could get the notes to hang out longer without degrading or fading, but it isn’t working. I’m already using the Looper for other purposes, so I want to do this with a DDL. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? thanks, Trey

I guess I have the same issue with delay devices.

• I choose a delay device, be it simple delay, stereo delay or reverse delay,
• I set the mix quite high around 80%
• First repetition is just good, but second repeat is suddenly so weak.

What am I missing? Is there a way to get a stronger repeats?

[xush]

How long do you want it to repeat?
Have you tried the Tape Delay as the thread suggested? Have you tried it on a parallel lane at 100% mix?

[purp]

Hi xush,

I want it to repeat 3 or 4 times with the same volume level, tape delay is kind of there but if I set the feedback at 30% it gets quiter after the 2nd repeat. If I set feedback more then it’s too much feedback.

How can I do it on a parallel lane?

Cheers

I tried tape delay,

[UglyBunny]

This is one of the reasons many prefer either outboard delay pedals or something like the Helix or Fractal Axe Fx III (or it’s floor counterpart units); QC still has a ways to go when it comes to time-based effects. It’s possible you’re not doing anything wrong and the QC simply cannot do what you want it to do in terms of delay. My needs now are quite simplified, as I mainly just play bass through it, but if I were playing guitar and needed dozens of extremely high-quality and extensively-editable delays and verbs, I’d still likely be using my Fractal gear. That said, I think the Plugins’ verbs and delays are really nice, so maybe NDSP will start offering more extensive delays with future FW updates. If you’re not opposed to outboard effects, there are TONS of great dedicated delay pedals out there. Personally, I prefer the simplicity of having everything in one unit, which is why I’m willing to eschew some of those nicer delays and verbs for the simplicity and all-in-one nature of the QC.

[PickinPete]

I haven’t updated recently so I can’t confirm but I believe there is now a multi-tap delay available. What about (i.e.) setting the first delay for, say, 100ms at 100% with no repeats, a second delay at 200ms, a third for 300ms, etc? Again, I can’t check this on my QC but I assume this would be possible and should provide what you’ve described.

[xush]

the new Circular Delay has multitaps, but the intervals are fixed. It does seem to have a different sonic quality to it, the repeats felt a little clearer and more pronounced to me, but that might have been the placebo effect
This might be a good option for @purp though; you can choose from 2 to 6 repeats, and they will all be at the same level initially, until they begin to diffuse.

the Dual-delay would allow for 2 separate lines of repeats.
You could also build multi-delays by running different models in parallel.

@purp

How can I do it on a parallel lane?

Basically, you put a splitter at the point where you’d normally put the delay, and put the delay onto that split lane. Then adjust the delay mix to 100%- and that entire row after the delay will only process the wet delay signal= the repeats. You can join that split back to the main row wherever you’d like, or send it to its own output. This is a good way to experiment with ways of affecting the Delay (or other wet fx) but not the rest of your signal or main tone.

[PickinPete]

Good info, Xush. I’ll keep that in mind, once I finally update. Hopefully Purp can use this knowledge to get the effect he’s looking for.

[purp]

Thanks a lot Xush, Pete,
I’m going to try out your advice tomorrow, will let you know
cheers

[PickinPete]

I miss-stated, you would only set delay mix at 100% if you are using the delay in a seperate lane (where the split mix would control the amount of wet vs dry). If you have your delay in sequence with your other blocks, go 50%, to have the delay(s) at the same level as your dry signal. Sorry about that. I look forward to hearing how it works for you.

[xush]

I think with the QC delays (in my case anyway) 50% doesn’t quite get them there. I’m not sure why that’s the case, 50% should = wet/dry at the same level. I find it isn’t though. 75% is where I start getting that actual balance. Maybe it’s different on headphones, but I don’t usually make adjustments that way.

[DiffractionCircuit]

Related topic and feature request, though these don’t exactly address OP’s original issue:

Why is Delay mix not equal at 50%?

After seeing more posts regarding this issue I realized my initial response was in regards to how I typically use a delay in my signal chain rather than the OP’s thoughts as to how the ‘Mix’ parameter should work. I often run my delays in serial, somewhere after the amp/cab. IMHO the following represents the best, and by best, I mean most predictable and most intuitive manner for the ‘Mix’ control to work: The levels of the source and the delayed signals should be equal at 50%. As you move pas…

[Option to] Make delay mix equal at 50%

“By popular demand!” In all delay blocks: Make the delay’s signal volume equal to the dry signal at the 50% mark. Delay signal only at the 100% mark. Let us TOGGLE this feature. The current method of having delay and dry signals equal to each other at the ~75-85% mark does not make sense for a lot of users. A 50% equal mix gives users a more predictable linear operation. Users should be able to toggle this feature on or off from the Settings menu. Previous existing threads:

EDIT: Let me also say that I use external effects for my delays (Boss RE-2 + DD-500), so I don’t have any particular opinion on the QC’s delays.

[PickinPete]

I’d forgotten about reading posts on that subject. I don’t currently use any delays set that hot so I guess I’d never noticed. As the old audio engineer’s saying goes, “mix with your ears, not your eyes”.

[andycoalter]

What kind and mix/decay etc of reverb are you running after the QC delays? I found that the QC delays got lost pretty quick in front of anything other than a pretty light hall or spring verb. That’s kind of normal but I feel like it is pretty severe with the QC wet effects.

I run external pedals for delay and verbs also and don’t have that issue anymore (other than what’s to be expected)

[SelfTitledLP]

I’ve noticed this with the reverb as well

[HonestOpinion]

Any chance the gate kicking in could be impacting this? Try turning off the noise gate(s) on the input block or elsewhere and seeing if you still have a problem with the repeats being killed or too quiet.

Another thing to look at might be the input level hitting the delay. Does increasing your input level at the input block, or putting a boost or maybe even a compressor before the delay help to increase the volume of the repeats?

Seems like the easiest solution though, as previously mentioned, would be to run the delay/reverb in parallel set to 100% wet.

[DiffractionCircuit]

I keep coming back to this thread… I’m going to catch flak for saying this, but here goes.

I played around with the QC’s delays and I just don’t detect a “problem” with the volume drop-off of the delay repeats–or at least that can’t be fixed by bumping the feedback amount to 40-45%.

Also, the parallel / 100% wet workaround is just wacky to me. Any block with a mix control creates a parallel path anyway; you’re just swapping the use of the parallel path within the block to the parallel path provided by the splitter.

I propose that we–any of us–create a sound test by recording the QC’s delay repeats into a DAW and looking at how much the delay repeats drop off. Try different feedback settings, different mix amount settings, and try the parallel 100% wet thing. Take screenshots and post them here. Because science.

[andycoalter]

When it’s just delay on its own, I definitely agree with your 2nd paragraph (sorry I haven’t figured out how to cherry pick a post on here). My issue with the onboard delay was that it was almost immediately consumed by any decent amount of reverb (at least at levels that I like setting reverbs at).

[xush]

@DiffractionCircuit

Also, the parallel / 100% wet workaround is just wacky to me

The point of a parallel line for any effect is to be able to process it separately while retaining the fidelity of the dry signal. Just like parallel compression, it’s a tool to get the most out of both elements.

I use it for delay when I want to apply other fx or processes to ONLY the delay repeats. There are all kinds of interesting applications when used this way, but you can only achieve them with the parallel path. It doesn’t necessarily have be to 100% wet, depending on the effect you’re going for

[HonestOpinion]

@DiffractionCircuit

Also, the parallel / 100% wet workaround is just wacky to me. Any block with a mix control creates a parallel path anyway; you’re just swapping the use of the parallel path within the block to the parallel path provided by the splitter.

Unless of course there is a problem with for example, the mix control. Comparing repeats with a serial path using the mix control against a parallel path with 100% wet using the splitter’s mix controls would be a worthy test per your quoted suggestion below.

@DiffractionCircuit

I propose that we–any of us–create a sound test by recording the QC’s delay repeats into a DAW and looking at how much the delay repeats drop off. Try different feedback settings, different mix amount settings, and try the parallel 100% wet thing. Take screenshots and post them here. Because science.

I love science! Good suggestion! Any takers? My DAW is in the shop.

[DiffractionCircuit]

@xush

I use it for delay when I want to apply other fx or processes to ONLY the delay repeats. There are all kinds of interesting applications when used this way, but you can only achieve them with the parallel path. It doesn’t necessarily have be to 100% wet, depending on the effect you’re going for

Fair point. But I think that’s getting away from the OP’s original concern. There’s a feature request for being able to add effects to delay repeats only–you know how I would normally repost that, but I’ll cool it for now.

@HonestOpinion

Unless of course there is a problem with for example, the mix control.

I’m skeptical that there would be anything wrong with the mix control–especially if we’re talking about delay blocks across the board–but it’s worth looking into.

No promises, but I’ll see if I can get some free time over the weekend for The Experiment. Dad duties make it tough, though.