I have been using the Quad Cortex with a Headrush FRFR-112 for the past couple of years and I must admit that it was a quite enjoyable experience.
Then, a few days ago my Headrush speaker died. It no longer turns on and it’s not the cable nor the fuse and it looks like I might have to get a new speaker. (I use the speaker mainly for rehearsals and sometimes to play small venues)
I dusted off my Fender Hot Rod Deville and tried to run the Quad Cortex with 4 cables and I noticed two things:
The feeling of the “air behind the legs” is something that I was missing and feeling it again was great
The sound was not so great. Even though I had the cabs turned out in my presets and all the delays and reverbs after the FX Loop 1 block, the result was nowhere close to playing with just the amp or with an FRFR speaker
I’ve been thinking of giving it a go with a PA, something like the Seymour Duncan 200 and a 2x12 cabinet (I love the Celestion V30 and I would probably try those first) to check if I can still have most of the versatility of the modeler (of course I would lose the simulated cabs but I can live with that) and the feeling of the moving air from the amp.
Is there anyone who already tried that out and can give some opinions/comments?
Otherwise my only other option would be to look for an FRFR speaker that can move the speakers without having to go full volume, which would also be interesting. But again, I have no idea if there is any product out there that can achieve that.
I use an SD Powerstage and Orange PPC 212/412 regularly with my QC and it works great. I haven’t ever been this happy with a rig.
The only downside is you don’t quite get the full low end resonance that you get with a valve amp and cab, but you get used to it pretty quickly and I don’t notice it now. It’s pretty marginal.
that’s good to hear! I found a guy who owns a Powerstage 200 and coincidentally he also has a cab with a pair of V30 and I am planning to get to his place to try out the QC with his gear. That should probably solve my doubts about that configuration. On the other hand I don’t know if a different PA might make a huge difference in better or worse. e.g. I have been looking at the Orange Pedal Baby 100 and that’s an A/B PA compared to the SD which seems to be a class D as far as I could understand. Maybe the Orange one would add more color to the signal… I don’t know.
The SD200 is still a guitar amp, so between that and the V30’s you’re going to get that ‘coloring’ on everything coming out of the QC. Totally not a big deal for some people, but for me I prefer to have a neutral speaker, that way I can let the QC add all the spice to my sound. Totally understand wanting that feeling of an amp next to you though!
I’m curious… Why not just get another Headrush or something similar? The SD200 is $500 plus who knows how much for that speaker cab… seems like another FRFR speaker would give you that ‘feel’ you’re looking for and be a lot cheaper than the SD200+Cab setup you were talking about.
I opened up the Headrush and it’s just too much electronic. I read on forums that I am not the only one who had it dying for no reason. Quite a lot of units have the same problem and you are pretty much done. You can’t repair it, you can order kits to replace one of the three boards but since you can’t be sure which one is faulty you would end up paying more than buying a new one. I even checked with a guy who builds amps and he suggested not to spend time trying to figure out what is broken and just throw it away. But I definitely do not want to get another one from Headrush… and honestly of the other speakers I tried so far, none is really what I am looking for.
I might give it a go at the new Tone Master FR-12 from Fender. There is also a speaker from Red Sound, the Elis 8 which seems to be quite interesting but it’s damn expensive!
And in the end I just believe you can’t get the punch from an FRFR unless someone comes up with a different design… maybe Fender got it right? I don’t know… need to try it out to check if it makes any difference.
The Kemper and Line6 speakers sound pretty dull imho.
But I am open to other options
BTW a used SD200 is about $400 and a used 2x12 goes about $300… not crazy expensive
I don’t have any experience with the Orange, but it was a consideration before I got the Powerstage. I just found a good deal on a Powerstage 700, so could run both guitars on one amp, as we are both going through the same QC currently.
I believe the SD has less colouration on the sound as it is purely a flat digital amp. The Orange might soften things a little, but that’s just guesswork from me based on watching demos before.
Separate amp and cab is definitely the way to go though. Less to go wrong as you said, plus switching cabs for different sounds isn’t really that much of a concern, especially for onstage sound. You can still easily have it set up for the DI signal.
The man benefit is being able to borrow a cab if there is a decent one provided. It has made touring a hell of a lot easier for us.
Oh wow… hadn’t heard that about the Headrush, that is crazy! I figured with it just being a basic FRFR the electronics in there wouldn’t be too crazy. I’m going to go lookup their warranty now since I just bought mine hahaha!
I’ve heard good things about the Fender but don’t know anyone that has used them long-term. At this point I’ve gotten so used to using my IEMs to hear my guitar through the PA that I rarely even hook up my Headrush to be honest. We had a wedge die and I used my Headrush for that gig, and it went fine with my guitar through the PA and my IEMs so I just kinda kept rolling with it the last few shows. I can understand wanting to have the ‘feel’ though.
Would be interested to hear what you end up doing, and how it works out!
I’m curious about how you hooked up your QC to your Fender Hot Rod Deville. If you’re using whatever amp modeling you desire from the QC, then go into the guitar input of the Deville, even with the QC’s cab sim off it’s going to sound weird. Two different preamps affecting each other.
Does your Deville have a power amp input? [It looks like new models do; I don’t know if older ones do.] If so, plug the QC into that instead. I don’t know what kind of player you are, but if you’re trying to do high gain stuff into the Deville’s power amp section, it’s not going respond with the same bite.
Also, I run my QC into an Orange Pedal Baby 100 and Orange PPC412 cab. The Pedal Baby sounds great, it’s simple, and loud as hell. I do 99% of the EQ moves I want on the QC and then make minor tweaks on the Pedal Baby’s bass and treble knobs depending on what room I’m playing in. Low end is tight. I’m super happy with it.
@DiffractionCircuit I am mainly playing funk and hard rock stuff so no high gain for my gigs. I do play high gain on occasional projects but that’s mostly in studio and definitely not live, so it’s not really a concern of mine.
The Deville has a power amp in. I tried both going straight in there from the QC with the pre section of the QC turned on and it’s definitely better than going 4 cables. Of course the 4 cables does add color as I am going through the pre stage of the amp, even though I keep the level at the minimum.
You’re never going to get the full experience of the QC unless you go with a power amp and FRFR specific speakers.
I’m running an ISP Stealth Ultra Lite power amp, into a 1X12" cab with a Celestion F12-X200 speaker, which has a 200w power rating, which more than handles the power amp and they’re specifically designed for modelling. FRFR.
That’s not much different from my previous configuration. I used to run into an active FRFR speaker… in the end it boils down to an integrated power amp together with an FRFR speaker… which is exactly what you are suggesting and not really what I am looking for.
BTW the ISP Stealth Ultra Lite is pretty similar to the Orange Pedal Baby… it’s a class AB amp that also gives color to the sound (thus deviating from your idea of the modeler-specific gear)
And just to add something on top of that, even if you use a power amp and a cab with your favorite speakers, you can still have a lane on the QC with the cab and send that one to the FOH or send it to your home speakers or earphones/IEM. But I have the feeling that the hybrid approach opens up more possibilities for the sound engineer at venues. He can then choose to take the signal from the modeler, mic your cab or get a mix of both.
The idea here seems to be a 12" “guitar speaker” in a “guitar cab” will move more air than a 12" “frfr speaker” in “frfr cabinet”. Or if looking at the Fender TM a 12" “frfr speaker” in a “guitar cab”.
I don’t get the expectation here? A 12" speaker is only going to move so much air depending on it’s own spl per watt whether it is frfr or one tuned for a specific resonance. It’s all about how efficient it is and how much power you are going to put into it. I have the Headrush 108 and I get the same amp feel out of it as I do running my guitar amps at the SAME spl/vol in my room.
I have put my 12" stage monitor on the floor in front of it and run an out to it to see if I get that extra “uumph” or air movement but can’t really tell a difference and in fact the Headrush actually goes lower in freq when I take off the highpass filter I run in QC global settings.
I have even run through my two 15" EV PA speakers which can get me that loud Hi-Fi sound it is tuned for in my studio. But prefer the 108 with it’s 8" sitting in front of my about 6’ away.
I use Quilter Overdrive 202 into a real cab, with the QC going straight into the FX return of the amp. It’s light, portable and works on every (normal) guitar cab. It sounds really great! I also tried the Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 as the form factor is even more convenient, but I really found sound very dull. Switching to the Quilter was like lifting a blanket off the cab. I wish they’d make a power amp only version.
My bandmate uses the Amped 1 as a power amp into a real amp and it sounds great as well! Just my 2 cents as someone who tried different poweramps.
I get your point. Technically speaking you stand correct. The amount of air pressure is something that can be measured and whether it is an FRFR or a standard guitar speaker, you can still have the same air pressure under the right conditions.
It might just be that the guitar speaker has a different “feeling” or “color” due to its nature of limited frequency range that makes it feel different when listening to it in the room, at least to my ears.
Somehow I believe that the different chain (PA + guitar speakers) is adding some color that doesn’t come through with the QC + FRFR. You might object that it’s due to the way I set up the sound in the QC and that also might be true
Do you use your 108 when playing live, by any chance?
Yes the “guitar” speaker is going to be tuned to a certain sound, obviously look at all the different speakers Celestion and Eminence et al make in their various lines. My Mesa has a Celestion V30 that was “designed” for that amp/cab. Were I to use that speaker with the QC it’s going to sound like each amp is played through THAT speaker and not the same as say the Jensen in my Fender. If I play through the QC into a frfr without that cab sim it’s probably not going to sound good without some tweaking ti the eq. But I can choose which speaker/cab I want it to sound like. If I put a cab sim ontop of a standard guitar/cab it may ir may not sound good depending on the frequency curve of each. I did a capture, my first, of my Mesa Express and just amazed at how close the QC with the 108 sound. I mean REALLY amazed. Were I to play that through any other of my amps speakers it would not.
And as I noted my PA speakers are barely carry a signal and just 100% wet reverb and delay so not enough to color the overall sound.
Have not gigged the Headrush 108. Yes I could in a small club. I read where people do. If I were gigging again and going to use the QC I’d go 12" either the Headrush or the Fender. Or the new Positive Grid 10" soon to come out looks real interesting. Amazing what they have done with the Spark and it’s two 4" speakers!. Spark CAB – Positive Grid
I guess the best thing to do at the moment is to try out the PS200 + V30 this Saturday and then give it also a try at the Fender TM and see how both configurations perform.
I got the Spark GO as soon as preorders were available. That small piece of hardware is awesome, I use it to practice literally “on the go”. Their new cab sounds interesting. It also comes at a real low price if you preorder it by the end of the day today, it’s discounted at 299 Euro.
