Quad Cortex Amp & Effects list

From the cortex virtual device list:
Pitch:

  1. Analog Octave
  2. Polyphonic Octave
  3. Detune
  4. Digital Octave
  5. Wham : Whammy
  6. Intelligent Pitch
  7. Drop

So, yes and yes.

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Thank you. Since I have you here, do you have to have an independent pedal to control wah?

No prob. Personally, I already have an expression pedal Iā€™m currently using with a fractal modeler I intend to replace with the cortex, though they have not yet published a list of compatible expression pedals. I believe on facebook earlier this summer they had mentioned doing tests and planned to publish a list of proven compatible hardware, Iā€™d hold tight till then.

Wait sorry I didnā€™t read that correctly. Yes they do have at least one ā€˜auto wahā€™ model available under the wah block, which as the name suggests would not require a separate expression pedal. I believe it was listed as having modeled a mu-tron pedal, if youā€™d like to look it up and get a better idea of how it should work, check here Link

I have not seen anything yet that outlines how deep the QC amp models go into covering off on all of the various switches and voicing modes on a given amp. For example, the Blues voicing mode on the Red channel of the tremo verb is one of my holy grail tones that I have been wanting in a digital model forever, but it is not clear if the QC might only be modeling Modern voicing, since that is arguably the more iconic tone from this particular amp. AND I absolutely NEED the Mark IV Lead channel with the ability to use the pull fat/bright/presence modes as well as the switching between harmonics/mid gain voicings.

Are there any details out there on this kind of stuff yet?

For what itā€™s worth, I am waiting to see the Mesa Mark IV on the amp list with all of its various switchable modes before I jump on the preorder list. I canā€™t live without that amp and will be ā€˜stuckā€™ with my Axe Fx III until it is available. I have been a very happy Fractal user for the past 6 years now, and the Axe Fx III is an absolutely fantastic unit that I love and adore, but I really need a quicker to breakdown and setup, self-contained floor unit that is full featured with dual amps in stereo capabilities.

The MK 4 amp has been a mainstay model for virtually all of the other players in the digital modeling amp game, so I am literally astonished to not see it on this list. The lack of the JP-2C is surprising as well. I would love to have a fully modeled Crunch voicing on Channel 2 of the Mark V. Finally, I am a bit disappointed to not see channel 1 and its pushed clean mode from the Dual Rectifier on the list.

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If you scroll to the bottom of the device list, thereā€™s a second batch of amps which have been identified as going to be modeled after release- in there is the jp-2c clean and lead chans. Canā€™t answer any of the rest but Iā€™m really anxious to know the answers on the depth of these blocks as well. The omega plugin proves theyā€™re more than capable of that deeper stuff like swapping tubes, so who knows if or when that type of deep tweaking will make its way into this unit. I would certainly hope that the models would include those switches, but weā€™ll see. I too am very happy with my fractal modeler and am curious to see how much of those more advanced features are going to make their way into this unit.

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I remember them saying all switches
In the original amps will be there
So the MK2 should have the deep
Mid shift etc

The will not have bias tubetype etc at launch just what is in the oriiginal amp controls

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Thanks! I had actually scrolled down and saw this and have no excuse for why I totally missed that the JP-2C was in fact on there. I might have to spend some more time with this amp in the Axe Fx and see if I can wing myself off of my long term addiction to the Mark IV. If so, I might be able to jump on the QC wait list sooner rather than later.

Also, some of my next steps were to take a spin through the existing DSP plugins to get a better feel for the tones as well as the depth of switches and features Neural has been modeling in the past.

Awesome! That is so great to hear!

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I love fractalā€™s IV models, so i totally hear ya- but I think thereā€™ll be enough other mesa flavor in there to not really ā€˜missā€™ anything thatā€™s missing. Plus, for anything not modeled - thereā€™ll always be captures. If it works like kempers, who knows, those could actually end up sounding and feeling better than some models.

Only bad news is the preorders are sold out, from what I understand your best bet will be to try to get one from a retailer when they make them available, I believe as of right now thatā€™s supposed to be end of Nov.

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They may surprise you and have some of those addl models by Nov
Maybe the JP2C and Bogner XTC
Will be in the shipped version

If they are done the first list by September they may continue on

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Anythingā€™s possible, though I would think they might move onto highly requested features like the looper or ports for the plugins before they continue on to some of those models they already committed to as ā€˜futureā€™ items. But hey who knows, that would be a lovely surprise. Iā€™ll be pumped if they get the base feature set out when promised, stable, and sounding up to par, which is no small undertaking.

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Thanks! Seems that there are all the classics I would ever use and ask for. Excited to hear them nowā€¦

So over the past month I wound up forcing myself away from the IV model in the Axe Fx to the IIC+ model and realized all that I had been missing all along. Almost bought a Mark III for some additional flavor for the purpose of doing profiles with the QC but wound up snagging a IIC+ instead (non-GEQ HX model and am using the Axe Fx EQs in the loop of it with good results). So after getting this ball rolling on preparing to do my own captures, I wound up going all in and also buying a Wizard Modern Classic and a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander. And now I am on a uncontrollable roll with major GAS for a Fryette/VHT Pittbull Ultra Lead or a Wizard MTL.

I am hoping the QCā€™s models will be the best of the best. Fractalā€™s are fantastic, but compared to a real IIC+ into a loadbox for an apples to apples comparison (and a relatively lesser quality one when I did this test; Two Notes Captor), there is still some special stuff missing. At least enough so that I feel like it is worth keeping the real IIC+ around rather than rely only on the model. However, if the QC can deliver something incrementally better, I would love to part ways with the C+ and use the funds and space for something else.

However, the Omega Granosphere is supposedly very close to a Fryette, so porting Neuralā€™s plugin of that into the QC that might be good enough to satisfy the remaining gap that I was kind of wanting but not really needing to fill. Or maybe the Nameless will do the same thing in a more preferable way. Weā€™ll see.

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I hope so too, but Iā€™m not so sure a clear winner will ever exist at this point, overall. ā€˜Betterā€™ is going to, just like it does with other devices, come down to a fair bit of user preference - and will most likely be specific to each model as well - just like it is right now when discussing user feedback from the other current flagship offerings. When it comes to models, Iā€™ll settle for this thing providing another flavor of ā€˜top tierā€™ quality - because everything at this level is more than good enough to pull off any / every genre and musical setting.

When it comes to captures however, Iā€™m totally OK with using words like ā€˜betterā€™, ā€˜bestā€™ etc. because direct replication is much easier to judge than a comparison between full circuit models, which will only ever be as good / close as the ears that dialed them. My expectations of cortex are highest in this regard, it ā€˜needsā€™ to be better with captures and even with what little weā€™ve seen it in action, Iā€™m feeling pretty good about it rising to the occasion. I would not be surprised if these captures end up with a feel that makes them more preferable than the models.

Iā€™ve not played either of those amps IRL but own both mentioned plugins, the omega is huge and will scratch an itch thatā€™s in the neighborhood of boogie, tonally, but has a character / texture unlike anything Iā€™ve played through. Itā€™s terrific. Omega is to mesa, kind of like what nameless is to plexi - a unique and very hairy not-so-distant cousin thatā€™s got a tremendous set of balls. They both take a bit of taming to sit nicely, omega moreso in the low end, nameless in the highs, but they both absolutely rip. Iā€™ve said it before but I really hope they offer discounted versions of these just for the cortex users.

What Iā€™m wondering / hoping for most, while weā€™re talking about these plugins - is that when they port them they give us the full cab section as well, which integrate the same way the stock IRā€™s do in the cortex for real-time mic placement. Especially omega, that IR set is very unique and works really well with models and amp DIā€™s. It would be really nice to add this to the IR set in the cortex so I can experiment using it with other models, captures etc.

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I agree with you on all of this. And crap I just started typing in response and got too long winded. Oh well.

I also suspect that the captures will probably wind up being relatively more preferable to the equivalent models. The limited demos of the captures do sound good, but we are basing this off of audio that undoubtedly went through a healthy amount of post processing. But I am betting on it meeting expectations, hence my recent gear accumulation.

The focus for me on ranking the offerings from other competitors is really in feel, dynamics, and subtle harmonics. If the captures can umm capture that secret sauce, then I will be a very happy camper.

The subject of what is better is absolutely subjective. For example, people have strong preference about which iteration of the IIC+ they prefer (simulcalss or not, 3 different transformer options, triode or pentode, GEQ or not, different brands of 6l6 and el34 power or preamp tubes, or Mesaā€™s attempt at reissuing the amps with the JP-2C), so even if you model someoneā€™s least favorite version this one iconic amp to perfection, it might not be more preferable to them at the end of the day. I should perhaps adjust to using the phrase ā€œmore accurateā€ rather than ā€œbetter.ā€ If the QC can get closer to nailing not only the tone but the feel, dynamics, and harmonics of the exact amp they are attempting to model, then that would theoretically make them a cut above in the quest to reach modeling perfection. But I also like where they are going with the Archetype stuff and stepping away from trying to exactly model actual specific amps. It would be really neat if they eventually integrate a way for us to virtually mod and tweak stock models at some point, but I am not holding my breath on this.

Appreciate the comments on the Omega and Nameless. The Omega came to my attention by a guy who owns 3 Wizard MTLs and has owned a Fryette Ultra Lead for a long time. He now has an Omega on the way due to its apparent comparability to these existing heavyweights. Iā€™d love for it to hold its own against them so I can avoid the compulsion to spend $100 on the sim and relieve the pressure to chase a $3k amp. Getting that dry and tight controlled low end that is still full and chunky, with a very in your face and uncompressed attack, along with an aggressive midrange grind and growl and a great but not fatiguing bite and crunch is what its about with this kind of amp for me. Looking forward to giving both sims a try soon.

I do wonder how Neural is going to approach the two different product offerings. One way I could see it is them offering something similar to the Helix Native to port over the expanded models over to desktop users. Although this could cannibalize the profitable hardware sales, it would also help to speed up the rate of adoption and help the penetrate the market even quicker and more easily. I do think they will have to discount their sims to buyers of the QC for the simple reason that might be the only way to get the QC users to shell out some additional cash when they have so many amp models already at their disposal. Otherwise the value proposition will likely not be there for most users, and they are going to want to leverage off of this additional revenue opportunity.

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Lol yeah, that was def an earful but Iā€™m with ya on pretty much all of it.
-I think itā€™s reasonable to expect captures to sound and feel more like the real amp in the room than the model because itā€™s basically akin to cheating on the test, same thing as with kemper. No model iā€™ve tried is nearly as exactly sounding even with exactly the same knob settings. Even due to tube and manufacturing tolerances, no two amps are really going to be ā€˜the sameā€™ so that could also explain why a model would be more likely to differ from the one you own, totally irrespective of the different techniques in which it is programmed / modeled.
-I agree, feel and those subtleties mean everything when fooling the player, and not just the listener. The plugins are either new creations or models of amps iā€™ve never played, so while they sure sound and feel ā€˜aliveā€™, and ā€˜realā€™- I donā€™t really have anything to as directly compare them to - as I will with cortex captures vs real thing, and models vs my current fractal. I also intend to capture my best fractal patches and see what happens.
-I too would like to see the ability for deep edits on amps, at the same time would be cool if they left that out. I spend more time dicking around with my fractal than play it when I go tone sculpting. The same kind of options and workflow as with the plugins would be ideal, but the ability to do a few basic mods like bias and change tubes would be plenty for me, and probably most people.
-The grano roars, go try it. Youā€™ll see. And you can change tubes in it, makes dialing for my different guitars / pickups very easy.
-The structure of their product line between these products needs some tweaking. Not sure I have the best solution, probably nothing they havenā€™t already considered - Iā€™m just identifying an area of need. People are going to look unfavorably toward them if they include all the plugins for free (by those who paid), and theyā€™ll get the same flak if they charge for them (by those who feel 1,599 is ā€˜enoughā€™ for a manufacturer to charge).

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I would love to see a Wizard VHT
Etc the good news is that even if there are not official models you should be able to get some captures from the 3rd party guys soon after release

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Yeah dude. You totally get it and have the right and reasonable thoughts and expectations.

Regarding deep edits, at the technical level, I also would prefer to leave that out. The exception being power amp tube swapping and biasing. Pre amp tube mods could also be fairly simple and welcomed. Beyond that, I think the way Fractal did it is just too much. It is not consumer friendly. My pipe dream is that it would be nice if there were more simple and universal ways to do things like tighten up an amp, reduce compression, add saturation, shift the focus of the midrange frequencies, etc. The Omega amp sim happens to have these kinds of features built in, because that is what is baked in to the real amp. The MI Audio Megalith Beta and Gamma as well as Wizard MTL amps are additional examples of amps that achieve this level of control in real life. It would be a dream if it was possible for this kind of control to be added in to amp models where this does not already exist in reality, but this is probably only going to be feasible for future Archetype sims.

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FWIW I had looked around for Kemper profiles of Wizard and Ultra Lead amps and found virtually nothing, so I am not getting my hopes up that they might pop up any time soon for the QC.

Funny thing is searching for demos of an amp via a Kemper profile pack is actually something I do when doing research on a new amp for quality sound demos. The reason I got into this is because so many demos are either cell phone videos or kind of bad micing. If Choptones has done a pack and has a just play demo version out, I am really set. Although I do not think Kepmer profiles are acceptable when compared to the real thing that has been recorded at a decent quality level, they are also much better than a subpar recording.

If this was the fractal forum, someone would be picking you apart about the ā€˜consumer friendlyā€™ part. I understand and agree with the premise though; iā€™d much rather see neural provide ā€˜someā€™ useful deep edit stuffs that donā€™t necessarily get down to the molecular level but give a bit more control than whatā€™s available with the factory knobs.

The ā€˜directā€™ profiles (head only) were the most useful overall, for me. Sure there were plenty studio profiles with terrific cabs micā€™d up by pros and they sounded great, but it was a cash vortex. Using ā€˜directā€™ profiles into a poweramp and real cab, or into one of my endless IR collections in my daw, is where it really put the profile process in a vacuum and took the human element out and gave me the most useful, realistic tones. I intend to use cortex the same way, and think if users do the same - the comminity shared captures should be very usable. The on board virtual cab sims is where the magic will be in using that type of direct capture.

Sounds like youā€™ve got a pretty sweet stack of gear ready for this thing. I have been mostly digital for some time now, have a couple amps to capture but I sold most off and intend to keep it that way. There are a ton of amp rental options local to me so if I really get the itch for something special Iā€™ll probably just go that route.

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