Parametric Controls on Captures

Hello Neural DSP Team,

I am curious about how much functionality users will be able to emulate with Neural DSP captures. From what I can tell it seems that there’s two tiers of captures? Full circuit modeling for things like the N-DSP desktop plugins and more restricted emulations generated by user captures? Essentially I’m wondering whether a user-capture and/or stock device in the QC have full control over the same parameters that the physical device bears? I can see in some of the promotional photos it looks like the amps have similar if not the same controls that are present on the physical amp by channel. Would you be able to technically capture a pedal with it’s respective parameter controls too?



Just another interested customer here. The way it looks is the QC can do two things. 1) run full models of specific amps, effects, etc. (like any plugin, modeler, Axe Fx, etc.), and 2) capture any part of a signal chain or the entire signal chain in a static sense (like a Kemper).

#1 is fairly explanatory given all of the existing options that have been on the market for a long time. All of the knobs and switches of the physical device that is being modeled should be present in the QC in theory and the functioning should be comparable to how the physical device actually works.

#2 the ability to have both amp captures/profiles and amp models in the same box is something that has not really been done yet, and hopefully the QC will be a top dog at both. But to answer your question, it appears like these captures can only be static; it is just a function of technology. The unknown is how much the QC might allow you to modify a capture after it is done. The Kemper lets you tweak a profile some after the fact, the available controls are not like turning a knob on the real amp, but it sill gets its many users where they want to go.

One of the biggest things that seems like it will set the QC apart is the ability to run multiple captures in a single preset and scene. This implies you can theoretically put a capture of a drive pedal at the beginning of your chain, a capture of the preamp section of your favorite amp next, then a capture of the power amp section from a different amp, all without having to have all of these units hooked up in reality to capture this complicated signal chain into one combined static capture (unless you wanted to). The question for me is will the QC’s capture magic actually do a great job at running one capture into the other and still netting very similar results in tone and feel as if you actually captured the same combined signal chain in reality. It seems like a tough ask, but it could put it even further into unicorn status if it does.

I don’t see why mixing and matching captured components would not work as described. I’ve already used many combinations of neural plugins and real amplifiers / cabs- even a plugin overdrive into a real amp, it all works great.

In terms of eq for captures yes, each capture includes its own gain settings as well as an eq that is ‘post capture’ and does not color the tone or ‘feel’ of the amp, as per doug on a facebook group thread. Kemper’s capability in this regard- making changes post-profile, is very limited. So this is real cool.

He has also stated that captures use less cpu than full circuit models, so in theory we should be able to load up the grid with them and make use of scenes for gapless switching. Nothing would be better than having 5-6 amps set up in a single preset, running only one or two at a time via scenes, and having enough cpu leftover for the fx i need to the point i could potentially play an entire set and not once need to change presets, using tone from amps and pedals I will no longer need to lug around. This should totally change the game for me.

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I’d be very interested to know more details about the profiling. Is it possible to profile, say reverb units with long decay? Or delays? Or anything that modulates? I guess it all depends on how long the profiling”window” is.

They’ve said it will not profile mod pedals. Something they’re considering for the future though. Drive, comp, amps n cabs -all good.

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Wow I didn’t even know modulation effects where on the table for consideration with Neural Capture. I just assumed the software was functionally barred from taking that kind of input.

It would appear not. I didn’t take a screenshot but I 100% read from Doug on facebook that while capturing mod pedals is not a current feature or on the planned roadmap, it’s something they’re toying around with maybe doing it in the future.

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I’ve used long reverbs and some modulation thing IR’s in Neural DSP plugins with some success. Just replace one of the cab IR’s with whatever and blast away. There’s of course no way to adjust how the IR is handled in the plugin so all possible changes needs to be made beforehand. But I haven’t come across any IR length limitations, at least so far.

The only thing outside of amps and drive/boost pedals that I personally would have any interest in trying to capture would be a Fuzz Factory pedal. But I have zero expectation of anything being capable of capturing or digitally modeling the craziness of how this pedal works and what it can do. So I would call it unbelievable if it becomes possible to be able to capture something like this.

I mean, fundamentally - od, dist, and fuzz pedals do the same thing but to different extents and styles- signal clipping. If neural capture has mastered replication of signal clipping, I don’t see why it would do one and not another.

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Agree in most fuzz pedal instances. But the Fuzz Factory is a kind of weird beast that I am not holding my breath on. More straightforward fuzzes, definitely doable, but there are some wacky ones that I doubt will capture well.

The Fuzz Factory has this crazy intermodulating oscillations thing and you can make it squeal different ways by just playing with the tone and volume knobs on your guitar, while not playing anything on the strings (the most notable example of this is the intro to Plugin Baby by Muse, where Matt is using the FF straight in as a DI without any amps). It can also do the super gated velcro fuzz thing. These particular pedals are super sensitive to being the first thing in the signal chain to the point that people actually build the circuit into their guitar because even a wireless rig bust up what they do.

I will be giving it a try on the capture end when the unit arrives, because these things is kind of fun to do some DI stuff with. But again I think it is beyond the scope of any capturing or modeling technilogy to be able to capture the kind of stuff that a Fuzz Factory can do.

Yeah that sounds like a combo fuzz / mod pedal. Would be great if they can get capture working for all sorts of mod fx to the point it could nail something like that.

What I would also like to see is what load box they recommend for the most accurate captures. Looked like they had a suhr reactive box in the background of the capture video.

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A capture is a snapshot of a device on the current settings. I don’t know how to capture the behaviors of the controls on the device. May be they find a way to define a controller in the QC (knob on the device), give it a name and turn it while capturing slowly from 0 to 100%, and this for each of them. But would this be possible? I doubt it.

Possible? Sure! But thats not what this product is designed to do, so one would need to create a separate capture for each knob setting. Doable but not time or storage friendly.

To do what you described, there would need to be a feedback mechanism to inform the capture unit what position each knob is in as it is turned. Think of something along the lines of the ekg leads they set you up with in the dr’ office, except instead of sticky probes that rip your chest hair out - it’s a combo position switch & servo to electromechanically manipulate the knobs, while at the same time monitoring the output of the device through the ‘capture’ input.

I’m sure people far smarter than i have already considered this- but due to the excessive permutations of possible knob positions- it’s got to be a lot more time and cost effective to achieve this with modeling.

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I wondered the same thing and spent a good bit of time researching load boxes. Was down to the Shur and the Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander, and I think these are the top two options to pick between IMO. The Fractal X Load 2 and OX Box are also at the top of the list for many, but I wound up crossing them off of mine.

The Suhr is great if the single impedance curve works well for you (it mimics Celestion G12 Greenbacks in a Marshall 4x12), and it is easily the best value for anyone that also has an effects and IR unit like the QC. On the other hand the TAE adds in the ability to use a variety of impedance curves which really does make a noticeable impact on tone and feel. However, it is about $1k more than the Suhr (new for new comparison, although the Suhr is sold out everyone and almost impossible to find used at the moment, and used TAE prices are <=$1k so the used comparison is more like a $6-700 delta). The TAE does add a really good 100 watt solid state power amp, great IR loader, internal effects (reverb, delay, compressor, EQ), external effects loop, and headphone port, which do justify its price point. IF those features were something that someone needed. However, the power amp is the only thing you would be missing with the Suhr + QC, and there a lots of great and potentially better power amp options out there that would be cheaper to add in compared to the TAE. I have not seen any impedance curve graphs for the TAE yet, and I have not come across a fair enough comparison that has the TAE’s impedance curve options set to the closest comparable curve to the Suhr yet for a proper head to head. Can’t go wrong with either unit though and might not need to look at any other options.

I wound up getting a TAE in yesterday. Had actually decided to chase down a Suhr to try out frst. But I wound up getting a really good trade offer for the TAE and jumped on it. The TAE is what I really wanted because I am mostly a Mesa 4x12 w/ V30s user, and the TAE can get me a more comparable impedance to that plus all of the other options that I also use at times. But the good trade deal helped a lot in pushing me u to the TAE.

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Very cool! Yeah I came to similar conclusions. There’s so much the boss unit does that I have zero use for, and i’m done with fractal waitlists, so i’ve moved past those but am interest to hear your opinion with the waza. The suhr is tough to get a hold of at present but seems like a great candidate, though i would rather something with flexible impedances to allow me more options to capture. The ox does that but I’d rather not spend that kind of coin if i don’t need to. Which led me to the rivera rock crusher as it does 8&16, that plus price point and attenuation - is my current frontrunner. Though, I think I’m going to wait for the internet consensus on the other options based on real world use with cortex before pulling the trigger on anything. I’m in no rush to offload amps and will have plenty to play with getting acclimated with the new platform and tone scultping with all the new models.

The OX is a neat unit and has great features. What steered me away from it is is apparently has a similar impedance curve as the Two Notes Captor, which is not a great loadbox compared to the Shur (speaking from a year of experience from the Captor that I am now replacing). This it was the thread lonk below that sealed the deal for me on crossing the OX off of my list.

Did not spend much time on the Rock Crusher. Don’t recall why I moved on from it. Might have been because the Suhr appeared to be the better load box to me. However, if you want attenuation and don’t plan to do a clean, FRFR type power amp like a SD power stage (which you could use to ramp after the Suhr, which is effectively what the TAE does) then an attenuator/load box would be a good compromise, and the Rock Crusher does look like a good option in that scenario.

Initial impressions on the TAE are great but am going to need more time with it.

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Yeah my purposes are strictly to capture amps that I have, ones I have access to, and maybe a couple I will rent. That’s it, so the suhr and rivera should do fine.

Which torpedo did you have, one of the older captors or the newer style reactive one?

IG what amps do you have that you intend to capture just curious

I’ve got a few to choose from between what i own and bandmates have but nothing really ‘special’, dual rec, triple rec, rockerverb, carvin vai sig, randall diavlo, engle savage, and ive got a couple vintage combos too. My plan is to use it as a modeler at first, see what’s missing and go from there. Through friends i also have access to some boutique’y stuff too. Problem is with young kids around it makes mic captures not that viable at home, so i’m hoping to do DI captures instead and see how nice they play with the onboard cab sim thingy.