In my Life i’m in pcb layout mastering from 1996 (10 layers my max in digital/analog domain)
It’s completely normal to optimize a product in his lifecycle.
Optimizations, cost reducing (with same quality), announced obsolescence of a component, and so on.
The sound in fact i think it’s in the same boat, or a little bit different (speaking in the field of useless 
), but this isn’t a tragedy
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Thank you NDSP for the sentiment. If you could just keep us a little more in the loop with development it would keep the loyalty and excitement level up, which is a good thing. thank you
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I would like to thank the entire neural team, hoping that the effort of this development Updade #57 pays off. It’s better a delayed version than an unstable one.
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I was going to write a more comprehensive reply to certain statements you have made in your reply but it was getting very long and I know how most people dont like to read other peoples opinions if they are long. Especially if the two dont see eye to eye. I will simply say that I did not imply much of what you insinuated. And that I think because you dont know me you are making assumptions. Beyond that I find your comparisons to be irrelevant to the type of gear we are talking about but im not going to dissect every single point you made because its multiple topics and offshoots that I could go on for days about. As for there not being any differences that remains to be seen as more of these units are out and long term reliability can be compared with a larger sample size. Most people who have bought this year probably dont even know if they have the old design or a new depending on some places having older stock. The only thing I will say about peavey is that if you didnt know any of that you just werent paying attention. The announcement of their USA plants closing and production being moved overseas was highly publicized everywhere from online, news stations and magazines. And in the other cases? You are kinda proving my point where people realized something about the gear was different and inspected to see how the inside of amps were being changed. Not everyone was happy about it which is why so many people cling to wanting older original versions and if they have the money are happily willing to pay for it whether it really matters or not.
I agree to a degree. Some have told me there were revisions internally on certain models of the kemper but not all. I cant remember the details but they werent able to provide much in the way of evidence. But what they explained didnt seem signifcant. Minor things here and there. I think for me it was how much was changed in such a short period of time. Making the units the same exact way sans a few different colored components across the years but same values and general construction. When I got this new unit i noticed a lot of changes even externally. Packaging was even a little different. Same look but not as wide of a box. The etching on the case is much more defined and pronounced. And this unit runs much cooler than the previous. I think it was the sudden onset of changes and to the degree the changes that were made that got me curious. Because I dont think making it cheaper was the goal based on what Im looking at. Maybe cheaper to repair, and the streamlined layout would be faster to assemble. But it makes me wonder if older units will still be able to be repaired or if one fails will all of these components still be available? or would you pay to have them swap all of the internals due to incompatibility? or are you just out of luck? These I think are valid questions. Especially when there is known failures on older models. The vast majority? No. But Ive read enough stories and talked to enough people about it that it has me concerned for people with older uniits. Makes me wonder if there will be any internal component changes from my unit to the one with the new codec and if my in between model is based on the same architecture and just the codec will be different? Anyone with almost $2000 invested might want to know. Maybe not all of you. But I do know some people are curious other than me. You can take my word for it or not because i wont name names. But Ive got enough private messages from people with issues asking me questions on numerous things I brought up on different platforms. They are just too afraid to make publicly discuss it because they are afraid of getting banned from whichever place they communicated from.
I do think purpledc has made valid points if internals of the unit are being changed enough are the older units gonna have an issue with newer components… New codec can that component be upgraded on an old unit or is it a whole board that needs to be changed and if it’s a full board will another board need replacing at the same time etc etc… Or is there enough old stock components lying around to cover failures… I don’t claim to know a lot or anything about the inner workings of the QC…
I have my unit a year now it’s the older one from checking light through the vents… But looking at pics it does look different and when my QC is out of warranty will it cost me too much for repairs or if they can repair older units… There might be somtin in what he is saying or there might be nothing in it…
I just want to say thank you for translating what I am poor at doing, communicating effectively. Probably due to my own attitude. Ill admit Im rough around the edges but I dont mean to stir the pot despite my choice of words. I will admit i could have worded my response and posted the pictures in a more palatable way. And for that I apologize to the community and to neural. I will admit I tend to dive deeper into this than some may care about. I guess i have always been a gear nerd. And I will say that I couldnt look at the two units and tell you what and how certain things that have changed beyond a few couple minor things. But its my lack of understanding circuit boards that has me interested when visually to in my mind the differences look substantial. Still. If I upset anyone, I truly apologize.
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The pcbs are A LOT different.
In components and routing.
But i think that the sound at the end..no, or at maximum paragonable in a very narrow area.
Or this can compromise the seriousness of a Company in DSP treatment without communication.
And i think that (for me NDSP Is a serious Company, my assumption) older and newer units are really similar in SOUND
Also..it’s near to IMPOSSIBLE that neural DSP explains the design revisions. First of all for IPP (intellectual property protection).
PURPLEDC
If you have old and new QC you can reamp the two units.
NO NULL TEST (with phase inversion
of two reamped tracks) because the comps.tollerancies and pcb routing CAN introduces Little phase shift.
But the two simple reamped tracks.
And.. WITHOUT post WHO IS WHO.
Then we Will judge (with you, all toghether).
Here we are in nerd field but this can be curious
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Exactly as you say, the PCBs will change due to component availability, cost optimizations, etc. But of course they take care that this doesn’t affect the sound.
Anyway, most of the sound is coming from the software running on the QC and all units use the same software.
The hardware can only influence the sound on the inputs and outputs and this is only a small part of the QC hardware. So most of the components you see in the QC are there to run the software, not to influence the sound quality.
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unfortunately this was a warranty replacement sent to me by the dealer my first went back to neural for repair but still didnt work right so the dealer swapped it out for the new one. And even if I did have that one still, I kinda feel the results could be compromised because my old unit was very very noisy and not working properly. So to pit a known defective unit against one that is brand new seems like it would be unfair. This one is a million times better but has a little bit of input noise if Im using some really high output passives. But gating does get the job done. And one guitar I have is virtually silent.
That I cannot explain. Because all of my electrics have decent pickups. I have aldrich suhrs in my strand, kiesels are well kiesel pickups and my gibson has 61R and 61T set. All of those guitars have a bit of noise. But my edwards LP copy with non wax potted SD seth lovers has zero noise. I can turn the noise gates off. I cant even wrap my head around that. The lack of potting would make me think they would be microphonic. But they are covered pickups. I dont know if by having covers that creates a faraday cage around the coils or not.
Ive the new unit about 4 months. No issues. But I am worried because Im reading some guys having failures on screens that are units they bought within the last six months. And its nothing like the screen issue I had. But I dont know. I baby my gear. And when im not using the quad I have it in a place it cant get hurt and I put a DVD over the screen so even if a fly craps on it im safe. Thats about all DVDs are good for. Protecting your quad screen, lol.
But yeah, reamping and stuff? I wouldnt know where to begin. In 35 years of playing guitar I have only wrote instrumentals but never recorded anything. Im not savvy with DAW’s. I have everything i need to do it. But I never have. So its a whole new something to learn and a lot of it.
I can agree that my sound issues are 99.99% because my old unit had issues. Not that there is an inherent sound quality difference between the two units. But I will say that I like the way the newer design looks on the inside a lot more. I know that it saves money. But I dont think it suffers in quality. And seeing how cool this one stays with so much free air inside I can see that as a plus for keeping components cool for long term reliability. My old unit got really warm. Enough that I worried and put it on a stand that would allow as much air to get into the thing without using an actual fan on it. Again, could just have been faulty unit.
But lets say one of these new units did have a problem I think the more modular design with nothing to have to unglue. It just seems like repairs would be easier and quicker to accomplish making it easier for more places to service them.
All of them have to be hand assembled i would think. But not having to bust out PCB cement alone seems like it would streamline production and possibly remove potential human error during assembly having less bits to work on. Just thinking out loud.
For the temperature, you may be right. I got a quite old QC and so far it’s ok but of course I don’t know how long it will live.
For the repairs, I’m not even sure they repair the PCB or they just replace them with a new one. But you could be right as well.
I think it’s almost impossible to say whether the newer designs are more robust than the older ones. But I agree they look much more tidied up and mature.
I would just not worry too much about it.
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I hope this question is right here.
Im looking forward to the “new” version of the QC, build from August. Will they also be shipped in August to Germany? And how I know the I get a new one? Will there be any tag on the package?
You’ll def have to look inside the box or try to get one from the newest shipment your retailer gets.
Realistically it all depends on what stock your retailer has. If they aren’t sold out of the old ones, then they might not even be getting the newest ones by then. I highly doubt Neural will be having the older version returned to them to replace stock at stores. Especially since some of the places that sell Neural products aren’t directly distributed from Neural. Neural has some weird thing where they won’t list certain retailers on their website that are legitimate resellers of Neural products, but they go through a middle man distribution company. It’s why the retailer list of Neural products looks super tiny on their website for physical locations.
Just out of curiosity:
Why would you prefer the new build? There should be no noticable changes except one less switch in the input menu.
The new codec they are adding in august neural claims is up to 50% more power efficient. This can reduce heat, improve component longevity and just overall can do the same work with less power consumption. Its actually a nice component upgrade.
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Can’t speak to why those pickups are quiet - great that they are though. Faraday cage is an interesting theory but unlikely. Pickup covers have a greater likelihood of creating noise with unpotted pickups than preventing it.
From MS Copilot:
" Why Pickup Covers Can Increase Noise in Unpotted Pickups
-
Microphonic Feedback: Unpotted pickups have loose coil windings that can vibrate and act like tiny microphones. If you add a metal cover without securing it properly, it can also vibrate and amplify those microphonic tendencies.
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Resonance Between Cover and Coil: The gap between the pickup and the cover can trap air and allow the cover to resonate. This can lead to squealing or unwanted feedback, especially at high gain.
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Lack of Shielding: If the cover isn’t grounded (i.e., soldered to the baseplate), it can act like an antenna and introduce more noise rather than shielding it.
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Material Matters: Some covers are made of ferrous metals that alter the magnetic field and tone. Others, like nickel silver, are less intrusive but still need proper installation."
Like purpledc said, that was my thoughts, too
I understand the reasoning, although I don’t agree. Whether they’re unable to provide a timeline they can manage, for whatever reason, or are just tired of users complaining about the missed dates, the fact they went from a date to something open-ended is not very confidence inspiring to me.
I hope we see something released in the near future, but indeed, I’m not holding my breath. I wasn’t before, but i’m also not going to remain quiet.
It’s unfortunate the other thread disappeared.
lol dude im not; im here questioning the integrity of the forum. You are the only one that keeps bringing up the other modellers over and over again. I mentioned the FM9 one time (in a completely separate thread). I spend a lot of money here so im “surprised” that your so “surprised” that im here.