CorOS Version: 1.4.1
I have a MIDI footcontroller programmed to correspond with QC footswitches A-H (MIDI CC#35-42.) This works great in Stomp and Scene modes, and for the most part is effective in Looper X Perform mode. However, whenever the Looper X parameters overlay is pulled up, the looper stops responding to MIDI events. This makes it difficult to test various settings as you’re experimenting with them, or in some cases, performing.
EDIT: I’ve just tested again, and note that the QC’s own footswitches also stop working when Looper X parameters are displayed.
Note that the touchscreen buttons for record, play, etc. continue to work fine regardless of whether parameters are displayed. I would expect them to continue to respond to footswitches and MIDI as well. Is this possible?
What is your midi controller. I know with the MC series you have to launch the looper in to looper mode so that there is not an unexpected latency.
Thanks for your reply. The MIDI controller is an Ampero Control 4, but this can be duplicated with any MIDI controller. Latency is not the issue. The issue is that the looper controls (record, play, etc.) are not responsive to MIDI at all when the parameter screen is up. In fact, I’ve just tested it again, and even the QC’s own footswitches are unresponsive when parameters are displayed. (I’ll try to update my OP and title to make the description more general.)
The touchscreen buttons for record, play, etc. continue to work fine, so I have to imagine this can be made to work across the board.
So if your QC looper is not connected to midi, then the buttons function as normal?
Also you are using 5din not a Widi connection contract?
Having using the QC midi features with a few midi controllers I do find that it could be the Ampero.
It might make sense to try an MC, voes, or Pirate midi controller all I know work.
But given the fact that your touch screen works seems to indicate the external controller is stopping the signal to the QC or the QC is confused about the message coming in.
No, the external MIDI controller is not directly related to the problem. In fact, you can duplicate it with nothing connected to QC at all (apart from power, of course):
- Open a new preset
- Place a Looper X block
- Open the Looper X Perform mode screen
- Click on footswitches E, F, and F again to confirm that record, play, and stop, respectively, are working
- Press the “Params” button on the touchscreen to open the parameters overlay
- Click the E and F buttons and note that nothing happens
- Close the params overlay, and click the E and F buttons to confirm that they are working again
In the step boldfaced above, I think the footswitches should continue to work, as the touchscreen buttons do.
Actually the footswitches are disabled intentionally in the parameters screen, as opposed to the perform side of things. So any MIDI emulation of the footswitches will also be disabled.
If you use the looper specific MIDI commands (pg 93 in the manual) those should continue to function and you’d be able to start/stop recording for example, while being able to tweak params at the same time.
So everything is working as intended, but you’ll need to program in the direct looper commands to achieve what you want - being in param mode and also being able to control the looper functions.
Oh I see what you were saying now…yes those are disabled in the Params section.
Thanks, Rex. This makes sense and is helpful. I had considered programming one of the controller’s banks in this way as a workaround.
Can I ask why the footswitches are disabled in params mode, though? My preference is to keep the MIDI switches mapped to QC switches E-H, so that no bank switching is required on the controller as I move between Scene, Stomp, and Looper Perform modes. (I do have an additional 4 switches “hard-mapped” to Scenes A-D via CC#43, which gives me a “hybrid mode” footcontroller when the QC is in Stomp mode, and allows me to change Scenes while looping.) I’m just wondering what value is added by disabling the QC’s footswitches in Params mode?
I can’t speak for Neural beyond saying it’s “working as intended” but if I were to hazard a guess it’s probably because there’s some current limitation or intentional decision made to not “overload” the stomps when acting as data input encoders. And I mean “overload” in the software development terminology of “having the same interface provide more than one capability” (loosely)
So if it’s acting as an “encoder” that’s all it does at that moment, it’s not an encoder AND a stomp - it’s not talking to two different… software “stacks”… the parameters page AND the switching system - it’s just doing ONE thing.
It’s also possible only one thing at a time can “read” or be attached to the stomp/encoder state. i don’t know enough about their implementation to say, but just taking a stab at possible reasons. Either way… it kinda is what it is but it might be worth adding a feature request so that it might get addressed in a future update.
I don’t know what controller you’re using but if you have a morningstar (I can’t speak to others) there might be some reasonably simple ways to do the alternate mappings, it’s still going to require a “context switch” of sorts so it may not be much different from a bank change… but you might at least be able to “overload” something like a long-press on one of your existing stomp mappings to enter the alternate looper mappings and flip back.
Thanks, Rex. I understand your reasoning, but it’s not consistent with the footswitch behavior throughout the rest of CorOS. For instance, if you are editing an effect block in the Grid view, a footswitch can be turned to change a setting, or depressed to turn its corresponding effect block (currently select or otherwise) on or off. In fact…
I just tested this again, and noticed that if I’m in the Looper X param screen, and I press a footswitch, it actually toggles the effect block(s) assigned to that footswitch. In terms of layered context, this is pretty counter-intuitive. You’re diving deeper into Looper X functionality, but the footswitch event is pushed further up the stack, to the general Grid functionality.
I was on the fence about posting this as a bug vs. a feature request. Do you think it’s more likely to get a response from NDSP as the latter?
Aside: Would very much like an MC-8, but it’s not in the budget at the moment. I can make do with bank switching on the Ampero, but I really think this could/should be improved on the QC itself.
I don’t disagree that it’s inconsistent but at least your testing rules out any sort of overall software limitation - I hadn’t tested in some of the scenarios you mentioned so thanks for providing those results. EDIT: I should say I hadn’t specifically paid attention to the exact behavior of the stomps and what was going on “behind the param screens” in the scenarios you tested, despite doing the same activities
Maybe it’s something specific to the looper block then as far as limiting it (again, intentionally in some way) vs the other scenarios - or maybe it’s just an oversight. Who knows honestly.
I don’t see any reason you couldn’t do both - I mean feel free to raise a support ticket describing the behaviors you see in your testing above, and make a feature request for the desired functionality. At that point you’ve rung every bell you can. But I probably wouldn’t classify this as a “bug”, almost feels more like unintended consequences, or perhaps some specific issue with the looper control implementation. it’s not “broken” it’s just inconsistent UX.
And yeah - genuinely the MC8 is a great companion to the QC. I’m hoping to do a few videos over the holiday break to show people how to map a few common and maybe not so common controls for the QC with morningstar controllers as there was some interest. If you can save up for it, I highly recommend.
Agreed, it’s not exactly a “bug”. Somewhere in between a feature request and a bug. Best described as “my personal preference; but I could make a strong case that my preference makes the most sense.” And yeah, probably just an oversight - the way the existing code worked by default, which no one bothered to change because it didn’t present as a priority either way.
When you say “raise a support ticket”, do you mean via their email address? I’m still struggling trying to understand what the “proper channels” are with NDSP. I figured writing here was about as official as it got.
I’ve become really familiar with the MC-8 - I’ve been eyeing it for a while. My current controller, as I said, is the Ampero Control 4, but I have 2 additional Mosky Dual switches attached, and the whole thing enclosed in a box with a CME WIDI Master and battery power. (I use WIDI Masters on both sides, because the latency is much lower than with the Ampero’s on-board BlueTooth.) I don’t get the long-press, double-press, etc. functionality of the MC-8, but at least the form factor (4 x 2) matches the QC well enough.
Anyway… thanks for the feedback!
Yes, email email@example.com and include all relevant details
I use WIDI Masters as well, work pretty great but can get a little flaky when running expression pedals as MIDI and sending a LOT of data. Otherwise, they’re fantastic
I don’t get the long-press, double-press, etc. functionality of the MC-8
It’s honestly REALLY nice. They let you assign MIDI messages to several actions/gestures. It’s really granular, so you can assign a message to be sent on the initial press of a stomp, but then also on the release (so you can do momentary actions by sending one message on the press, and then “canceling” that on the release) or as you’ve noted, long-press, double-press, etc - but you can map commands to ALL of those at the same time (up to 16 per switch per preset - not counting toggle modes and shift states). It’s honestly an insane amount of flexibility to “overload” an individual switch. And you’re not limited to sending external commands, you can trigger all kinds of “internal” functionality on the MC8 itself (like switching banks, changing tempos, entering different modes, adjusting CC/PC counters)
I’d love to see even half that kind of control come to the QC itself at some point. Until then there’s just about nothing the MC8 can’t handle running the QC and any other MIDI capable gear you might have on your pedalboard.
The MC8 is great. I think for the money it is very comprehensive. The pirate midi box is also good. I am waiting for the MC pro series. That is goin to be great.