Help with using external pedals in FX Loop

Quad Cortex
1

I have never used any external devices with the QC before, but I am currently building a hybrid setup to include a few pedals in the fx loop. I have been trying to set up the Strymon Volante with the fx loop, but I have run into some issues. My setup is as follows: Send 1 of QC into left in of strymon volante and left out of strymon volante to Return 1 of QC. I have the volante set to line mode. I also set the fx loop block at the end of the signal chain before reverbs. In row 1, I have 3 overdrives, two amp captures with a split to run stereo, then back into IR and this goes to Row 3. In row 3, I have two modulation effects, a delay, the fx loop, then a reverb. This preset is in 1A.

First and foremost, I adjusted the send levels and return levels in the global IO settings so that I would not get clipping with the fx loop. I have the send set to -25.0db and the return set to +9.0db. These settings keep the return level right around the green bar without going into the yellow or red. I also set the FX block on the grid to +4.0db to get unity gain when fx loop is activated. With these settings, I do not get any clipping but the external effect sound is very muffled and does not sound as pleasing/prominent if I were to run it behind the QC (out 3 of QC into left in, then left out to power amp without using IRs/cabs). If I turn up the send/return whatsoever to hear the effect more, I get clipping.

Furthermore, if I set the FX loop up into another preset, the global IO settings that I have for 1A do not work well. I have to adjust send/return levels for each preset to get the levels correct. For example, on preset 1b, I have to have the send level at -10.0db and return level at +2.0db to get similar levels as in preset 1a. This changes again if I insert the FX loop into other presets (1c, 1d,…). I would like to be able to set the global IO settings so that I can use the external pedal with each preset and not have to adjust per preset. This happens even if the presets are identical as well - if 1a and 1b are the same, the global IO levels for send 1/return 1 of fx loop will need to be different.

Any help on these issues would be very much appreciated. Thank you for your time.

2

Hi, let’s address some of the issues you’re having. Respectfully, you might be overthinking this a little.

Keep in mind that each FX loop is mono only. [There is only one DAC per send and one ADC per return, confirmed by Neural.] If you’re trying to maintain stereo throughout, you would need to use both FX loops.

The FX loop Sends actually boost the signal around something like +5 dB (others in the forum have the exact number), so it’s good practice to attenuate the outgoing Send signal by the same amount in the global settings to compensate. -25 dB seems a bit excessive, though. That might be too quiet going into the Strymon and I wonder if it’s the source of the sound problem you’re having. You also shouldn’t need to boost by that much on the Return jack and in the FX loop block.

For example, I have my QC set at -4.5 dB for the global FX loop send and 0 dB on the return. My Boss pedals are happy.

The amp and capture blocks you have set up in your presets are really where the difference in volume is coming from; not the FX loop. Switching guitars will also cause a noticeable change in the gain settings throughout your presets, too.

When I build presets, I aim for a target average gain value on the output, usually something like -12 dB so it’s not in the red. I’ll add my amp blocks and overdrives first and adjust my output levels in those so the overall output is in the ballpark of what I want. Adding the FX loop is part of that process but comes later.

I’m typically a “one preset for the whole gig” guy but on the few occasions where I needed multiple presets available–because of guitar switching I planned to do–I compensated for gain/volume differences by adjusting amp block output in each preset.

I should also mention that I leave the FX loop always on and simply tap the pedals themselves on and off. I would suggest the same for you. Switch the Volante on and off directly if it’s accessible on your board.

TL;DR:
Attenuate the FX loop Send by a reasonable amount, try not to touch the FX loop Return if you don’t absolutely have to, focus more on amp and capture sounds if you need to keep volume levels consistent between presets.

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Awesome! Thanks so much for your reply. I really appreciate the help. I do have a couple follow up points/questions.

So I should basically target to set each preset to have an output around -12 dB if I understand correctly. This is my first time using captures, and I do believe they are a bit hotter on the output. Do you adjust the volumes within the capture/amp blocks or do you use things like gain blocks to adjust? Also, do you just check the global IO when doing this? I do have the global input boosted a bit to raise the signal level of the guitar coming in.

For the FX loop levels, I agree the -25 dB is excessive, but I am getting a big boost if I do any less. If I leave the return at 0 dB and reduce the send, it does lower volume, but I get clipping until I get to around -20 dB. I continue to lower send a little bit more then compensate with return levels to get unity volume back. This is the only way I’ve been able to do it to avoid clipping. If I understand you correctly, I should instead adjust levels of captures/amp blocks and see if that works?

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-12dB works well for me, that’s what I shoot for on the meters. You can definitely use the Capture Volume setting to lower its output- that won’t affect tone. But as DC says, you might just be hitting the loop too hard with what comes before it. You can level those out with the individual block’s vol or level settings if it has them.

When I ran my Volante in stereo thru the loop I don’t recall having any issues when I applied the instructions NDSP has given about the FX Loop default levels:

“FX Loop Send Default is Line level/unity gain. For un-amplified devices (preamps/pedals, etc) you need Instrument Level, so lower the Send Level accordingly. Many users start around -5dB and earball it from there. NDSP has no official recommended level because of varying output levels from outboard gear.”

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That’s where I’ve landed as a “safe” target for an average output level, with a little bit of margin left before the meter flashes red (I think around -7 dB). You don’t have to use the same value; I just provided it as an example.

I typically adjust levels inside the capture and amp blocks. Gain blocks are still useful, though. (See below)

This is touching on a larger topic in the QC community with a wide range of opinions. I personally don’t think boosting the input on the global IO is necessary. 0 dB on the input works really well for most guitars. That said, differences in guitar pickups can easily be compensated for within a single preset by placing a gain block as the first thing in the signal chain.

[That is to say, if you’re using multiple guitars with the same one preset, activating a gain block can help boost the volume of passive pickups (so can a compressor block) to match a guitar with active pickups.]

Captures can be really hot. Imagine putting a boosted guitar input into that, too. Sometimes I have to attenuate a capture’s output gain at -10 dB or lower to make it usable.

It sounds to me like you’re running an extremely hot signal to the FX loop Send. Try puling down the volume on your capture(s). Then you won’t have to attenuate the FX loop Send so much, and you should get a clear sound without clipping.

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are you running the Volante in “Kill Dry” mode, or are you mixing some dry level in with your signal output? My bandmate has had issues with his H90 when inadvertently leaving some DI mixed in with the pedal’s output. Not sure if that could be affecting your setup; usually that causes tonal issues rather than just level discrepancies, but it might be worth looking at.