I’ve had my QC for some time and have always struggled with the effects loop and external pedals. I’ve found that I consistently clip the returns when using external delay or synth pedals. When I look at the manual, the preset shown on using the FX block shows it placed after the amp, but before the cab block. This absolutely works as clipping is never apparent as the cab block seems to absorb that. Problem here is that my pedals sound is affected by the cab block and there fore not as pristine as placing at the end of the chain. However, if I place the FX block at the end of the chain, any clipping is clearly apparent.
I’ve seen numerous post on various forums of people’s different send and return settings to deal with this. What I’ve noticed is that when I reduce the send db to account for clipping, it also reduces the return and therefore needs to be increased on the returns. This raises the noise floor however. I posted this question to the Discord server and was directed to this video explaining that the sends at 0.0 are at line level. The instructor says that the sends should be cut to around -16 db to reduce to instrument level. He does not however increase the returns. When I do something similar to this, I notice an output drop on my FX loop and it does not sit well in the mix as compared to simply using a reverb block with for example the Mind Hall algorithm. It’s a bit frustrating that there’s not an official explanation of this from Neural in the manual or even their YouTube channel explaining how to best approach this.
My signal chain is send from QC to a Meris Enzo X, Meris LVX, Strymon BigSky MX, return to QC using the stereo send/return FX block.
So two part question:
How do you set up your globals for send/return. If Neural says in the posted video -16 for sends, would I match that on the returns?
What would be the pro/cons of simply setting the pedals in my chain to line level instead if the QC is globally already set to send at line level on the sends? Is that an option?
I’m not convinced that the -16 level was deliberate, he just turns the knob in that video without even looking at the value. I’m still convinced that the -5 to -6dB value many users have measured manually on their units is more reliable. That level seems to fix most issues. Personally, I’ve been setting it by ear per pedal as some react differently, and I usually don’t need to adjust the Return Level
We may as well ask Support directly though, that’s the best way to get a straight answer. It may take a few attempts, but I’ll start now.
Wow, thanks for the input! I think this is something they really should put an official video out about but then again, I suppose like you said, we can just do it by ear.
I tried to be as specific and succinct in my Support request as possible, but sometimes it seems to take a few back-and-forth communications to really whittle it down to the crux of the issue.
Hopefully they can provide some concrete figures to go by- we’ll see.
It’s definitely one of several seemingly obvious omissions from the manual; there are a few features they just completely overlook and we pretty much have to rely on experienced power-Users to fill in the gaps.
I‘m using a HX Stomp ( Inst setting on IN and OUT) in the effects-loop.
Send level -4.1 and Return level -1.0
In my case that’s unity gain and no noise.
Yeah it doesn’t seem like you are boosting at all here and therefore shouldn’t get any additional noise. I assume you get no clipping? What is abstract here is the fact that Neural is saying 0.0 is line level so there should be some specific value to reduce to so that we are at Instrument level. What I’m finding is that when I cut sends, I have to boost the returns to get the volume level back up to the rest of the effects. For example, when I cut the sends to prevent clipping, I can compare the Mind Hall reverb block to my Strymon BigSky MX in the FX loop. If not setup correctly, the Mind Hall just sounds so full where the BigSky has a noticeable output drop. If I place the FX block on the end of the chain and leave it closer to 0.0 on the send, then the BigSky sounds as it should, big and full. Problem is some of those reverb algorithms just stack and begin to clip the signal.
I’m sure there’s an answer here. Hopefully support has a really technical answer that at least gives us the technical approach/settings to start with, then dial in by specific pedal.
I have similar settings with my HX Stomp and I agree that this should be addressed. It’s really challenging to get the gain structure correct and as many pedals don’t have any metering on them, it’s difficult to get the level set correctly just coming out of the QC. For example, when I first bought my QC I had also purchased a Boss SDE300 and it was clipping considerably when in the FX loop of the QC. I thought the Boss just didn’t have ample headroom and returned it, replacing it with a TC Flashback (which ended up being a much better solution for my needs anyway) and had no headroom issues. In the end there was nothing wrong with the Boss, I just couldn’t get good advice on proper gain staging with the QC. I still feel like there is no clear answer and this is not properly addressed by Neural.
The hotness (or not… ness) of your guitar pickups,
QC input gain settings,
Any drive and/or compression blocks you might have in your signal chain,
The amp block’s output gain settings, OR
A capture block’s output level,
…all going out of the FX Send. A lot of variables there.
I would agree that this should be addressed by Neural, but there’s not a one-size-fits-all output gain setting–whether 0 dB or some attenuated value–for the FX Send.
However stupid it sounds, my best advice is to just play it by ear. For most of my presets, I attenuate the FX Send at either -2 or -3 dB and my Boss pedals are happy.
has anyone else contacted Support@Neuraldsp.com concerning this?
I did 4 days ago, haven’t heard back yet. This is the first time they haven’t gotten back to me quickly. Makes me suspect they may not have a one-size-fits-all answer.
Like DC says above, there’s probably too many variables involved.
but it would be cool to get an official response/acknowledgment, if anyone else wants to ask them directly.
I’ll do it today. Been out on a trip so I’ve gotten home today to try out some of your suggestions.. So far so good. I tried the -12 on the send and boosted equally on the returns. Seems to keep the clipping away. Moved it up to -6 now and +6 on the return. I find if I don’t boost the returns then there’s that noticeable volume drop. I’m also doing this with the Meris Enzo X synth pedal because some of the volume spikes can be pretty significant and still all good.
I would still love to see a manual update and/or video tutorial on setting up this and overall patch volumes.