Archetype integration in 2.x

I’ve been anticipating this future development, together with the desktop integration. I bought a few Archetype plugins, and they sound awesome in my DAW (LogicProX), so getting them on my QC would be a game changer for me, using it live on the QC. There have been mayor improvements, but this one was an absolute ‘got-to-have’. I’m only wondering what the interface will look like, since these are quite different as a VST or QC versions.

not much has been published so far, in the way of details. Note that the dev update mentions ‘components have to be ported.’ It has been assumed so far that each element of the plug-ins would be ported as a separate block; amp/cab/fx, etc. Most likely they wouldn’t look any different than the blocks that are already on the QC, there wouldn’t necessarily be an ‘interface.’
But we don’t know for sure yet.

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the QC doesn’t have the resolution / color range / dynamic range to display them as they appear on the desktop. My expectation (purely hypothetical) is as @xush says - that they’ll just be regular amp block type things but with more pages / controls maybe

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I also think, it wouldn’t be practical to have the plug-in’s desktop look on a floor device. Ideally I would like to have the plug-in components available as additional blocks, like mentioned by @xush . For example a synth block with the synth from Rabea’s plug-in.

In terms of pricing, licensing it would be nice to have all the blocks from plug-ins available, that were purchased by the account, the QC is registered to. However, I hope we don’t have to buy full plug-ins in order to get access to one of their blocks while not interested in the other blocks. So I’m hoping for some kind of a QC-specific ‘block store’ where I can buy just the synth block at a lower price, for example.

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I know, we can’t compare the VST layout with the CC, so it will be ‘int the style of’ the QC

I assume you have to buy the plugin before you can use it, that seems fair. I bought the Petrucci and the the Gojira, so I guess these be available for me

Also, a big hurdle is making sure that only certain users have access. I’m guessing every QC will have to be registered by serial number to our online account at Neural and then they can cross reference orders and zap Archetypes to the right units.

I recently bought three Archetypes too and love the tones I’m getting. I think the Archetypes are next level quality and I hope that level gets ported to the QC, which I also LOVE, but takes more work to get to the great tones.

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I got the QC because I was so impressed with the plug-ins and hoped I could use them live this way, and being able to run multiple instruments at once was also a huge factor for me. Really looking forward to the plugins hitting the QC eventually.

I wonder if maybe you’ll have to get the Plug-in/Archetype ported blocks from the Marketplace, like captures from 3rd party sellers? Then it’d be less tied to your actual QC unit and based on your account at NDSP. If so, that could also be part of the delay, there would have to be a Marketplace up and running too.

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I think the prospect of a floor modeler that can essentially run plugins is one of the most compelling features of the QC. It seems the process is not quite as seamless yet however as it will probably be in the future (with another generation of hardware). There still appears to be a rather involved porting process, to move a plugin from the computer to a modeler.

My concern, and I know this sentiment has been expressed elsewhere, is that considerable development resources will be diverted to this effort. This is only fair as this was a feature promised when the QC was released. However, depending on the amount of dev resources available and dedicated to native amp and effect models as well as improved features and functionality, I can easily envision this turning into a very expensive proposition for end users.

Although I will almost certainly purchase a couple of Neural plugins, I hope this will not be the only path available to enjoy the true potential of the QC. As a business model for the QC, the sale of plugins seems to be in direct conflict with a robust development effort of free updates. My hope is that the architecture and code of the QC, can be melded into an almost automated process when moving plugins to the QC, that will not consume significant development resources on an ongoing basis. Also, that somehow, there will remain an incentive to provide top notch models and features that do not require an additional purchase.

By way of example of what I hope Neural avoids… During the COVID quarantine period I purchased a small Spark amp to noodle around with for practice. As far as I can tell, Positive Grid neglected to include a wah option in the available blocks on the Spark. The only way to get a wah, an effect most guitar players consider to be standard fare for a modeling amp, was to make an additional purchase of their Jimi Hendrix package. That is the kind of sales model we do not want to be subject to. Where basic or common modeling features found on other devices become available only through additional purchase.

Anyway, I wish ND great success with their plugin porting efforts and hope that they will also stay dedicated to improving the QC in the areas that do not require additional purchases.

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Actually I think it’s kind of pointless or confusing for people who don’t even use plugins to go all the way and buy plugins when all they want is just a particular NDSP exclusive effect that initially was part of a plugin. For me the term plugin doesn’t even make much sense on the QC. It could be more appropriate to call it e.g. ‘Archetype Packs’ for QC and I’d expect the price for such a pack of amp/cab/fx blocks to be lower than for the full plugin. In turn, if you already purchased the plugin, then the pack should be free, of course.

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not all the plug-ins are Archetypes. There are 2 bass offerings and several specific amp plug-ins available that aren’t technically ‘archetype’ suites; I think that’s why the more general term is used

There may be another complication in addition to the free firmware upgrades vs. paid plugins/packs. Neural could end up providing a more comprehensive plugin/app that mimics the operation of the entire Quad Cortex, but works on a computer in or outside of a DAW. Similar to Line6’s ‘Native’ offering that mimics the Helix. How do they work the sales model of a comprehensive QC plugin/app with their current “one-off” plugins, e.g. “Archetype:…”? I guess we’ll see how this all shakes out. There are multiple ways Neural can go and grow.

It looks like we do have to pay although I’m definitely not sure what they being neural will decide for those of us who already own the quad. I’m not going to buy any plug ins if they do charge a lot. I’ll deal with what I have and make due with what’s in the quad which is
plenty for me plus my Amos and real odds is gone first. But the quad is great. Feels the most like an amp and sounds great. Just put it thru amp’s return fx and use a real guitar cab. That’s it. No computer. Love using a cell instead. because I’ve already overspent. FYI if I have to start with a computer which I just don’t want to use since the quad’s UI is Awesome I’ll pass on any plug ins and get them from other users. Problem solved.

Of course, you’re right. I was just giving an example. Also, the title of this thread refers to ‘Archetype’.
A word like ‘pack’ would still be a better general term than ‘plugin’ when it comes to the QC, IMHO. The word plugin kinda feels wrong in the context of a multi-fx/modeler. I’m aware, I’m splitting hairs here, though.

of course there are other plugins

I would think that there’s an account level security piece to keep them available to purchasers once available.

I love the plugins, I have 5 of them, Tone King Imperial is my favorite. My issue is that each of the plugins has effects I’d like to be able to use in other plugins like I can in Helix Native. I hope when these plugins are available on QC that we have access to the individual amp and effects blocks so we can incorporate components of various plugins and other QC effects into a preset.

I know this is a bit redundant given my earlier post but… Excellent as the plugins may be, conversely that is just my concern. Even if they break out the effects from the plugins so they can be used with other blocks once they are ported to the QC, we will still have to purchase plugins to get effects or features that might be part of a standard firmware upgrade on other devices. Aaargh! If they follow that sales model, definitely not my preference, I hope they make plugins/packs very affordable for QC owners, at least a couple of times a year. Would hate to end up with a Ferrari car with a Yugo engine.

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Agreed with you!

I’m actually OK with free updates on QC and the option to purchase plugins to provide additional content. After all, Neural DSP’s success is also our success.