I couldn’t disagree more with this. I would say the cleaner the tone, the easier it is to replicate in a modeller because there’s far more non-linearity and harmonics with distortion, and therefore complexity.
Separately, and I’m not having a go but you’re clearly of the opinion that real tube amps sound better and can’t be replicated well enough by modellers and therefore you’re kind of proving the point as to why they don’t market as heavily to your market lol. That aside, they could have some plugins based around blues. The thing is you can probably get it from the plugins they have already.
Im not that sensitive… That’s your opinion and your entitled to see it your way… For me they sound great on recordings out front of house in headfones etc etc… But they have yet to get them to sound like real amps in your room I’m not saying they don’t sound good they just don’t sound like a real amp or maybe I should say perform the same as an actual valve amp in the room… Why cause it’s replicating a mic’ed up amp. And that’s just my opinion and what I think…I play country more not particularly a blues player…but lots of country styles out there with different sounds and setups not just a tube amp and overdrive pedal…
i dunno man they have a nice mix on their instagram of different types of players. I was just watching someone rip on a warm jazz tone with archetype henson yesterday.
I agree with this completely. Venue plays a huge role in tone too I think. I would also add that the country and blues styles are more associated with smaller clubs and honky-tonks where that “amp in a room sound” is much more noticeable even when it’s coming through PAs also. When you get up to the big arenas and stadiums, and those guys that are playing for the huge acts they’re probably using modelers like the quad cortex and Kemper and fractal, etc.. because with a venue that size, you’re not hearing stage volume that isn’t being sent through a FOH anyway.
I really really liked my quad cortex. But there were just some bugs and feature sets and requests that weren’t getting addressed. So if I’m having to add an external midi controller pedal and an external tuner pedal and external delay pedal, etc., then I just decided to go back to a complete analog pedal board and give The toneX one (plural) ecosystem a try. I was told that analog pedals react better with the tone X set up and I can confirm that as of today I agree. Much more organic and natural sounding through my in ear monitors than the quad cortex.
I sold my quad cortex after my experience with my new set up today. So this will probably be my last post on this board. It was great interacting with everyone. And I appreciate all of the help and feedback and information and support that I received on this forum, both directly and indirectly. Happy music-making everyone.
The thing with djent and prog genres is they have been historically defined by the use of digital equipment. If you go back to the early days of bands like Periphery, Monuments and others leaning heavily on early digital modelling, the sound kinda became known for being unlike anything you would get on a traditional amp and pedalboard setup. People are just more nerdy and open to trying new things in these genres.
But on the same hand, you could argue that djent/prog music is also less mainstream and profitable. NDSP should definitely be venturing out and appealing to a more widespread audience. Country music is an absolutely massive genre with a lot more potential to market to an entirely new audience. I’ve seen Fractal units used in country and pop music quite a bit (only because I pay attention to the gear). The thing with country is most guitarists seem to care more about the guitar they’re playing than what they’re playing through.
Another avenue that NDSP is missing out on is praise and worship. The large majority of churches these days playing worship music have guitarists playing outdated Line 6 Helix units. It’s like the defacto worship modeller despite lacking the power of the Quad Cortex. Everyone at my church uses some form of Helix unit (a lot of HX Stomps especially).
Maybe I am desensitised to it because it feels like every musician YouTuber is a djent player using the same Strandberg style headless guitar or down tuned bass, but it just feels stale. Even the instrumental stuff that’s shreddy is impressive for a moment, but seems to be devoid of personality and soul.
All this to say I would love to see Neural marketing worship, pop, blues, rock and other non-heavy genres because the Quad Cortex and plugins are so versatile you don’t have to lock yourself into hi-gain amps.
NDSP is a finnish company. Worship music isn’t a thing here in Europe, and country is barely a blip on the radar, and is heard of mostly through social networks (country artists others than Taylor Swift barely if ever tour Europe whatsoever).
While metal is still massively popular, especially in northern Europe (and even more in Scandinavia).
Which I guess answers your question.
HoW dArE a c0mPaNy MaRkEt TheiR Pr0dUcTs tO LaRgE CoNsUmEr BaSeS!!!
If crustpunk, grindcore, shakti-style-indian-jazz-fusion-guitar-adventures were top sellers, you’d see Archetype John McLaughlin in the blink of an eye.
To each their own, I guess! Not that anyone asked but I don’t find any particular style of player “annoying” … I mean, anyone who really likes their instrument and cares about the music they make is inherently awesome in their own unique way. I think that translates whether we enjoy the same genres or not.
Praise and worship music has become a genre all unto itself.
One thing about worship guitarists is that they have got moneyyyyyyy for their bafflingly high-tech pedalboards. Companies like Strymon and Worship Tutorials have figured out how to capitalize on that, for sure.
(While I cringe at the thought of worship music as its own genre, I also have an elaborate pedalboard setup and play in the worship band at my church. I get around that in my head by declaring that I’m a punk/hardcore/metal guitarist first, but I know that argument is flimsy.)
Anyway, I do think Neural would make more profit by marketing their hardware specifically to guitarists in the P&W space.
Similar experience here! I cut my teeth in the church realm… still do the odd gig to support friends I met from that time of my life. I’ve always liked metal more, so that’s what I enjoy the most for playing and writing but I can say without doubt that some of the most gifted musicians I’ve ever met have come from the gospel community. It seemed like every other drummer or bass player lived by this formula lol:
I kinda agree. I mean we all know that the QC is great for metal. But looking at how great the Asato or Toneking Plugin turned out, they could get more into that area of music.
But i think most people are more interested in metal and prog nowadays. (which i love btw)
I love to use the QC for my Whitesnake Tribute Band (i always get a praise for my sound). At home im completely into blues, ambient, instrumental black metal and so on. It does it so well!
I do lots of broadway style musical theater as well as background music for TV networks. I use the Quad Cortex for the former and the plugins for the latter. The hardware and software products are perfect for me regardless of what style of music I need to play. It does surprise me that they don’t market it to a wider range of musicians of all styles.
I get the impression it’s what the Neural DSP guys like to listen to. I cringe but I know music sensibilities are subjective. I have had the best results from the Tone King, Morgan Amps, and Nameless. The named archetypes associated with the prog players who to my ears all have really bad taste and cringy tones are a turnoff to me and I say this as someone who for the most part has matured beyond my hipster ways. Go listen to these guys Cory Wong, Tim Henson, Wasabi, etc. They sound bad.
That said, the Tom Morello amp and the Mesa and SLO amps sound quite good. My opinion. As far as where the money is… well that’s easy… boomers and gen x are guitar oriented and are locked and loaded with the funds. Far be it from me to tell NeuralDSP their business, but America is where the goldmine is. No offense. The West is the best.
it’d be great if NDSP catered towards the rockabilly/surf tones as well. Yes this group is historically a fender tube amp, with slapback & boost in front but they are moving to amp less just like everyone else.
I sometimes wonder if the NDSP user demographics and correlation to music genre.
I think it has a lot to do with who has and has not embraced technology to achieve guitar tones. I really dont get much into marketing about gear. Even though I own a strandberg I didnt know who he was or that he even played them much less had multiple signature models. I seriously thought “plini” was some boutique amp company that I have never heard of.
I think with some of their plugins they did do things like the morgan amp suite and the tone king. But marketing? Wouldnt that depend on artists who actually have an interest? Im not saying there isnt in the community but at what ratio in which it can be profitable? You would need artists who use plugins and or modeling software. Or at the very least someone who may be an amp only person but would allow a plugin to be made to get close to their tones. But then again this person would be technically attaching their name to something they really wouldnt use themselves and that purist nature seems to run deep with many.
I personally see plugins, modeling software and VST’s in two major camps metal and worship. Metal I encompass all things heavy in that from petrucci, abasi. I guess for me its not so much who is marketing something or if its tied directly to a certain artist but rather does it have what I want and will it do what I want it to do?
Take the plini plugin. Im not a fan of his music. But if you do hear people demoing that plugin you can hear that their is a lot of versatility in there. And while the marketing I think for most companies will be geared towards its largest audience it hasnt stopped guys who have embraced modeling from genres where its less popular from finding the unit.
With that said I dont think for one second if say Joe Bonamassa reached out to neural and said “Hey what would you think about a plugin” that they would turn him down. So I think there has to be an equal ratio of interested artists of recognition with influence and a large enough fanbase also willing to embrace the technology. But even worship guys. They are a HUGE piece of the market when it comes to at least amp modeling. I dont know how many run a PC based rig as Im not into that at all.
I think just like the worship guys who really have no marketing or huge names to get involved are kinda in the same boat. They gotta get in there and try different things out. I know i have personally been surprised just going through artist presets how differently certain people make presets and how they choose to use a plugin to get a certain tone. Whether its the plugins or the hardware I think the versatility is there. But the marketing is always going to be what brings in the most customers.
They may showcase the high gainers chugging or prog rock I don’t play either of those genres. Rock, blues, pop, funk and RnB. I do like to use gain but that’s just me. There’s a lot of players using them like session guys like Rod Castro for Beyoncé, Bebe rexha, Banks, Natasha Beningfield, Ellie Goulding, John Mayer used it for 2 songs at Coachella, Rob Harris funk guy for Jamiroqui, Jules the Wulf Mary J Blige and We The Bandcand and solo work, megadeth, kiko Loureiro, Rabea, Simon McBride from Deep Purple used it for his solo trio and more.
Well, I was wondering that myself. I’m a jazz guitar player. I use one sound mostly.
Most influential guitar players ( in any genre ) also use 1 or 2 sounds mostly.
However, everybody wants their digital modeler more flexible. That is also somewhat understandable.
Neural DSP markets towards not me or my kind of players. However, I bought one as well.
So, it did not make any difference if they were not inclusive towards my type of player I guess.
Until there is another product out there that will make me feel at home more than what I have, I will not change my device. So realistically, market will tell what will happen.
For those who don’t want to read (which, c’mon it’s a quick one)… Doug Castro, Neural’s CEO, is an “avid metal musician.” No sense splitting the atom to figure why the primary marketing strategy focuses on heavier music: that’s what he’s playing.
To that point as well, metal musicians in my experience are some of the most open-minded people I know. I mean, sure there are gatekeepers and those who only like what they like and decry everything else, but’s that more the exception than the norm in my experience. An average metalhead’s playlist can include anything from country, to P&W, to jazz, to hip-hop… so it makes sense why Neural would ‘start’ marketing toward a base of consumers who will naturally look to see how applicable a product can be to their “home” genre, yet also to multiple styles of music . It makes sense to me, at least.
Well, this was exactly my case I think.
I knew or I should say it was obvious the unit was marketed towards heavy metal genre.
However, I thought I could use it with my genre which is jazz.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that I was right.
I make jazz education videos and I use Logic’s Jazz Fat preset a lot.( modify it of course ).
I captured it the other day and it worked out fantastic. I am still looking for a great Deluxe capture but I will get it thru Amalgam studios then I’ll be all set. That is all I need. A decent clean Deluxe sound. I also use a very mild overdrive sometimes. They have the RAT clone and I also have a SoothSayer that I will capture.
Most importantly, I can take this to any gig and have it as the only device.
I made myself TRS→XLR cables. So I do not need anything now.
Although, I’m thinking about a line isolator just to be safe from phantom power but it is not a must since I already have the TRS→XLR cables.
. It makes sense to me, at least.