I wish it would be possible when creating a capture of a full rig, that the qc automatically separates the amp from the cab, so you don’t have to capture the cab separately. Coming from the kemper profiler I really miss this feature.
Understanding direct PROFILING
The KEMPER PROFILING technology has already had an incredible impact in the guitarists’ community for being able to capture the sound and feel of the classic guitar rig: tube amp / cabinet / microphone. These profiles are called “Studio PROFILEs”.
Now with Direct PROFLING KEMPER have gone even further and are able to capture the sound of a tube-amp including its power-amp separately from the cab - even when the cabinet load is active. This works by tapping the sound exactly where it hits the speaker cabinet: The speaker output! As high voltage and high wattage are present, a dedicated DI is required. This specialized DI box is capable of scaling down the tube power amp voltage to a line-level signal, suitable for the PROFILER, on a XLR output jack. The high-power signal is forwarded to the speaker cabinet through a different output jack.
What is the purpose of this when the sound of the speaker will not be captured in the PROFILE? The purpose is to capture the amp including the complex impedance behavior of the speaker. This method captures those often discussed interactions between the power tube-amp and the connected speaker cabinet. When the Profile is played back through the Profiler’s built-in class D amp, or an external solid state power amp, it will recreate the same impedance situation to the connected speaker-cabinet. This is the key to making the built-in power-amp sound like a real tube power-amp.
The Direct Amp PROFILE can later be merged with the respective cabinet portion of a Studio PROFILE. Alternatively, Direct Amp PROFILEs can be paired with arbitrary cabinet impulse-responses, imported by our CabMaker 2.0 software. The result is a complete PROFILE that can run a physical guitar- cabinet onstage for monitoring, and simultaneously feed the virtual guitar-speaker sound to the main PA.
I have never used a Kemper but this looks pretty cool. The way I read it is that the signal is split and the kemper captures the amp and cabinet separately with the benefit being that the amp capture includes the loaded impedance curve of the speaker.
Thats about right.
I’m missing the tweakability of the amp and cab. Like saturation, clarity, low and high filter, mic compensation etc.
Even though the QC is way more accurate than the Kemper and doesen’t need this parameters in the first place. I used them to make the profiles even more individual to my liking. A standard bass middle treble eq misses the point for me.
To my knowledge the Fender Tone Master Pro has a function where you can load different impedance curves for more accurate feel.
Well, the idea with the Kemper merged file is that you profile the direct amp separate from the miked cab and then later combine them. The OP is trying to avoid taking two captures.
Moreover, the Kemper implementation is terrible. Kemper cannot actually bypass any cab (even an IR once loaded in). I’ve had a Kemper. It’s maddening. There is still some aspect of the cab in the signal; it sounds like the tone is underwater. Kemper initially said this was a feature, claiming it imparted a touch of the original cab to the tone. Ugh, no one wants that.
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^^^ This.
The QC’s capture process is black box modeling, meaning that it provides some input (all those weird digital blips and bleeps) and measures the output. It doesn’t “know” what’s in between.
I try to use the term impossible in this foum as little as… possible, but in this case attempting to separate an amp capture from an amp + cab capture would not work. The black box approach to captures completely “bakes in” in the sound of a cabinet with the amp if you choose to capture both together.
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I think the Kemper is the same black box concept. It’s just if you have a direct and a miked profile without changing anything else, you can merge them and the Kemper programming attempts to figure out where the amp ends and the cab begins.
It’s a neat idea. I’m not sure how effective it is given the Kemper cannot even fully bypass a separate IR (which is pretty clear where it begins and ends), so of course the Kemper has no hope of actually implementing the merged profile concept well.
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You can do this on the QC already.
It’s simply saying that you connect a DI box to the cabinet directly (check whether your DI can do this, but brands like EMO, Palmer, and many others do. It just needs to have a ‘Speaker’ input or similar), then you connect the DI to the QC input.
Reactive load boxes like the TwoNotes Torpedo are the same, they just don’t need a cab at all.
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This is the way. Whatever is happening in the above posts can easily be configured like this with the QC
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Of course you can do that. Thats what I did as well. But it annoys me. Also annoying is the eq you get when you capture a cab. Gain, bass, middle and treble doesn’t make sense in a context of a cab.
The merged profiles function very well. The difference between merged and non-merged is huge. Especially when you play with a power amp into a real cab. The merged feel like a real amp. The non merged have artificial feel to it.
If you take a “normal” Kemper profile of just an amp head, add an IR, and then “bypass” the cab block: you’ll get the same underwater sound/feel as a merged profile. Because the Kemper cannot fully bypass the cab section once something is loaded into it.
There are two great work arounds for that:
- Capture a cab as an IR which is what you should do anyway*
- Just ignore those settings? Just because a control is there, doesn’t mean you have to use it.
*You’ll need something other than a QC to make IRs, but I don’t know what. I’ve never made my own IRs because I can guarantee any that are available are far better than what I can create. I would hazard a guess that that is the same for at least 90% of people that need or want an IR.
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ML Sound Lab’s cab pack plug-ins let you blend whatever mic positions you like, then export as an IR file. From there, you can load the IR into the QC. I use the “ORNG” (Orange PPC412) pack and it works great.
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Yeah I know. I get my IRs from the GGD Plugins where you can customize different cabs, speakers, mics etc.
They could offer convincing two captures (direct and through cab) into one and the one could choose to disable the cap afterwards.
So no, not impossible
You are correct. Something completely different is entirely possible.
The original request is still not possible though. No matter how it’s done, you either need to make two captures, or Neural have to add a way to have an extra capture point between the amp and cab. Using some kind of software trickery to remove the effect of a cab on a capture that included an amp, cab and mic(s) is never going to be possible.
Might as well work on a device that can remove all spices and seasoning from a curry, but without knowing what spices or seasoning were used, or what type of curry it is.
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All of this discussion and yet not a single vote.
- If you want to capture your amp head by itself, great. Do it.
- If you want to capture your amp + cab, great. Do it.
- If you want to use a custom IR, great. Do it.
- If you want to find any combination of the above captures… You get the idea.
More than enough options available.
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I already knew all things you mentioned and that’s exactly the reason why I made this request.
As if I hadn’t thought about it before posting the request.
If asking a request results in a endless discussion, this is the first and the last one I’ll ask.
I think they’re just trying to help. Since this is your first post in this forum, we don’t know what you do/don’t know. Usually, we try to recommend and discuss workarounds for issues that don’t have an official solution yet because we don’t know if NDSP is aware or working on it. So there tends to be a lot of discussion, because they kind of leave it to us to figure things out on our own here. (Even though this is NDSP’s ‘official’ forum they don’t really interact here)
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You got a point there.
I wasn’t aware that Neural isn’t active on here.
The next time I will give more details in my request and try to prevent endless discussion.
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