Shouldn’t be difficult… Others have this cracked
Sound guys everywhere would thank you!
Better still allow the selection of scenes as rhythm/crunch/lead etc and be able to normalize the group.
Might be good to read this older thread first.
I’m curious, when you say"others have cracked this" are you talking about other guitar processor manufacturers? If so, who and how is it implemented?
Fractal have a system apparently…I think it only needs to be about 80% effective and it’s just an algorithm rather than rocket science
I think I made a similar request at some point and I think it’s doable since the capture process has the auto level set function
As for fractal I think they have a preset levelling tool which shows the I/O for active blocks with meters so you can adjust them all on the same window.
That’s interesting as “precieved volume” is a bit of a moving target. Capture gain is probably more dependent on the actual volume of identical signals. “Precieved volume” is more dependent on various paramaters like frequency response, harmonic content (clean vs overdriven) and how compressed a particular signal is. Even the masking affect of competing sounds (like a band) can have a major impact on the precieved loudness of a preset or scene. I’d be curious to hear from some Fractal owners on how well this leveling function works. I’ve found some tricks to get it in the ballpark but nothing seems to replace tweaking under real-world circumstances.
Try a loudness meter inside your DAW. Logic has one build in. It shows the perceived level of loudness / volume by human hearing. Compare the loudness value of your presets / scenes and edit them accordingly to be roughly the same if that’s your goal: Loudness Meter in Logic Pro for Mac - Apple Support
Other DAWs probably have one build in too. There are also some free plugin ones.
My old Eleven Rack had it.
I had an Eleven Rack that I got with a Pro Tools rig. I never spent much time with it (used a Fractal AX8) but don’t remember that feature. Does it work well?
In the Eleven Rack it is called Rig Balancing in the options. It shows a scrollable list of the rigs and then a volume knob and you can easily check them against each other.
Have a routine that list the first scene of the first patch for each playlist and a volume control as an overall setting. Then for each patch have a list and control. Then each scene. You could then balance them against each other, put a meter on each page and even boost a couple as needed against the others.
Heck they could up a screen to show all the scenes in a patch with a bar graph showing the output setting for each and bounce back forth between them setting all.
Made it easier to do than have to load each one from the main page.
Preset leveling is essential for live performance. For me it is one of the more onerous tasks on a modeler.
I am not aware of anyone who has completely automated leveling of presets. Fractal has a standalone leveling meter tool but it requires plenty of user interaction and you still have to use your ears to compensate for Fletcher-Munson.
I like this idea though. I guess the OP’s statement that “Others have this cracked”, would depend on what you aspire to in the way of a tool to provide normalized patch volumes. The tools I have used on other modelers and DAWs for normalization vary in ease of use and effectiveness. Everything I have used still requires a fair degree of manual adjustments.
Any tools/meters that the QC can provide to make leveling of presets a faster simpler process are welcome. There are some approaches out there that have made it easier on other devices, but I am unaware of any that have truly automated this process in a manner that requires zero or minimal user customization. There is room for improvement in modeling tech when it comes to easily getting levels for live play.
I hope modelers eventually move to incorporating complex enough algorithms to effectively model the ways in which human hearing and perception interact with different volume levels and tones and automatically adjust volume levels across presets and scenes. Customizations for the process could be included to allow user preferences, or, for example, scenes such as a lead boost that are intended to be louder, be designated to remain that way after auto-leveling.
It may take a while for manufacturers to get there but a truly comprehensive level normalizing tool would be a huge boon to users. Even if you could only automate something like 90% of the process, that would be substantial win. Reducing the number of remaining presets that still required manual adjustment might be assisted by adding some kind of a custom user rules interface to an auto-leveling tool that could tweak and improve the process over time.
Ultimately, I hope modeling companies figure out how to provide a smart leveling process on the output block. Forget leveling volumes individually for each preset/scene entirely! Instead provide a dynamic process that could intelligently adjust levels to hit a designated perceived volume on the way out of the device. With, of course, the ability to designate particular presets or scenes as not subject to the “intelligent output leveler”.
Probably haven’t considered some of the potential challenges to this method or if it is even practical, latency might be an issue. It sure would be handy to not have to worry about preset leveling at all though and just have a dynamic output process to handle leveling. I guess in some respects I am describing an incredibly transparent “super compressor”.
And at what volume do you want to Normalize this. I find at bedroom volume the relative levels are completely different to those at gig levels.
However my solution (which does need a little manual tweaking), is to use a sound pressure meter (one on your phone will do).
But I have a bedroom patch and a gig patch.
For me, when I gigged with other modelers, it was not just a gain/vol difference it was an eq difference too and therefore always had different presets for my casual studio play and gig play. Mostly just boosting the midrange and tapering the bass and high end a touch as the FM gets minimized at gig volume.
How about a quick A/B comparison mode? If QC could load two patches at once (perhaps disabling any mod/delays to save brain power) and let you flick between the two.
Then you could have one ‘reference’ patch and then A/B it instantly against your other patches in turn with a button press (effectively a scene change) rather than paging down through menus to find the patch you wanted to compare it against.
Sort of ‘Patch 1A vs the world’
Big challange how to manage a solo-boost in case of a good working auto-leveler?
Couldn’t you just look at the output meter of the QC in the I/O window? Just see where that is instead of guessing
honestly it would be great if you could keep the output meters on screen while adjusting parameters to fit a target level you have referenced visually.
That would be awesome. I think Fractal might have that??
I noted the Eleven Rack module where that is basically what it is but you can scroll through all your presets quickly with a volume knob right there to level by ear or meter if you set one up. Don’t know if auto level would get the job done to the extent you would have to go in and adjust to your particular taste or need.