I wanna apologize for saying your cab sims weren’t very good. It turns out, my ears just weren’t trained enough to know what I actually needed to hear.
Unsurprisingly, it turns out I’m a big fan of the SM57 placed right against the center of the cone on a very high gain amp like the Fortin nameless.
Also turns out I dislike boosting 4k and really love boosting 1k
Dude — I remember when I first got an AxeFX II and everything sounded like fizzy aural trash to me… granted, it was well over a decade ago and I’ve had more than a few slices of humble pie since then, but I immediately made an account and posted on their forum, saying something akin to obviously players far better than me tour with this thing so I’m sure it can sound good, but why does mine sound like garbage?! I spent thousands on this! wHaT tHe HeLL!?!
…then a forum user matched my energy and told me to put up or shut up: upload a link to what I was hearing that was “garbage.” Well, my ego didn’t have time for that so I just assumed I got a crap unit and contacted Fractal directly for a replacement. And they kindly suggested I tell them my signal chain. Which I did. The very next email was “Hey man! Try turning off the power amp simulation since you’re using an external power amp. Let us know if that fixes things.” Et voilà, the thing sounded fantastic.
I felt really stupid. I emailed Fractal back and apologized, said thank you for the help, and their response was very kind and professional. I’ve been a firm believer in RTFM ever since. That same day though, I went back to the forum to post a “sorry folks this one is on me, false alarm. Here’s what their solution was in case it happens to someone else!” and was utterly crucified. Deleted my account from the harsh DMs alone, but I took it in stride all the same and kept it moving. I continued to play that rack for years and years, too; it’s what made me fall in love with the world of digital effects and amp modelling in the first place.
Understanding complex gear takes time, and we’re all gonna make mistakes along the way as we “figure it out,” so your post is refreshing. This place can be an echo chamber sometimes, so posts like these are cool to read. All the best to you @Igigi !
There are some interesting lessons to learn that are unique to digital modelers.
I don’t know what your use case is, but the center of a speaker’s cone is where high frequencies emanate from. If you’re playing live–by sending a signal out to FOH–it might be good to adjust the mic away from the center in your cab block, and/or apply a low-pass EQ that can tame a lot of the high frequencies (cutoff usually around 6-7 KHz). High frequencies at high volumes = threshold of pain. Fletcher-Munson curve and all that.
In the mixing world, 4 KHz is known as the whistling frequency and tends to be really grating to the ear. It’s very common for mix engineers to filter or attenuate 4 KHz, especially for distorted rock and metal guitars.
You’re not the first person to mention the Fletcher-Munson curve… I’ve got some reading to do now!
Ah, gotcha. In a nutshell, the human ear becomes highly sensitive to high frequencies, at high volumes. In a live music context, any person running a sound board for FOH should know that and apply some filtering to smooth out or attenuate high frequencies so that it doesn’t destroy people’s ears.
On the flip side, if you’re running a digital modeler on your computer monitors at home, there’s a tendency to want to make things brighter for clarity. If you make a very bright-sounding preset at low volume at home and then try to use that same preset at your gig, it may turn out to be way too bright, brittle, and harsh.
An SM57 placed in the center of a cone may sound good at low volume–let’s say, in a cab emulation in a modeler with computer monitors. But in the live sound world, this is almost a guaranteed no-no because of all the high frequency that the center pumps out. Far more common to place an SM57 closer to the edge of the cone, where more mid and bass frequencies emanate from.
When I got my QC I complained that the stock cab models were too dark. But I learned later that they’re perfect for gig volume. I hope that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense. The sweet spot on my Budda Superdrive and Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb was a 57, off axis, pulled ~6” away from the centre of the cone.
Interesting to know those differences. This read was helpful as well, so I’ll just leave it here for anyone else who stumbles across this and is curious: https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-is-fletcher-munson-curve-equal-loudness-curves?srsltid=AfmBOoqPkB_CfXPE0j1KI89cVaz9oOFDnivZb0xJ59sxW18qAV7TRiq9
I appreciate your insight Nicholas, you’re a very knowledgeable chap. Cheers
Yea i totally agree with you. Truthfully, I didn’t know this till very recently either. I was testing my pedals through my PA system and it was very spikey and too bright. The warmer cabs sounded a lot better through it.
I am primarily a studio musician though, until I find band mates who share my vision enough for us all to comprise a little. So for now I’m a fine of bright thing sounds, as I tend to mix my music very bass heavy
There’s one big caveat to that (which I otherwise totally agree with), which is the Fredman recording technique:
It relies one using two 57s set dead center, and is a big part of the At The Gates/In Flames Göteborg melodic death metal sound, that was super influential on pretty much all metal productions of these last two decades.
But yeah, live and at volume (and without all the multiband compression and EQ tricks and tracks layering that help make this sound work in a mix context), edge of the cone and slightly angled is the best (or at the very least default/starting point) placement for a 57.
Didn’t know about this. Thanks! I wonder if I can recreate this (virtually) with any of the Neural plug-ins or with ML Sound Lab.
Damn, so that’s where that came from. It’s been my favourite recording technique too, mostly due to my ears hearing it and lielly being familiar with “the sound “ and deciding its what I wanted. I only got on SM57 but it realy helps bring the guitars forward in the mix without the need of overpowering any other instrument
Yeah, it’s a pretty cool trick, though it can get pretty spiky and harsh, hence the use of a multiband comp and a healthy dose of EQ to control upper mids response and make it controllable.
But properly done, it’s super agressive , dry, beefy and upfront in a very cool way, that is THAT sound (Clayman to me is one of modern metal’s best produced albums, though songwriting-wise I have a soft spot for Reroute To Remain). Definitely not something I’d attempt in a live environment though.
After learning how to utilize all the new features, this pedal really does it all now. The only thing I needs is that change bank butting to cycle through presets we been requesting and this thing will be PERFECT
Here that mods ? Let the creators know, they are THIS CLOSE TO PERFECTION. This one change will make this device perfect
That and offline editing
Add gapless switching, some more effects and bluetooth playback and I would agree. I love my little companion, but there is some room to improve, but it‘s already great