So, with the new realization that we should have our interface input all the way down (not almost to clipping like we’ve done for ages), do you find that you have to turn the input up on the Neural plugin like 20-24dB? I’m using a UA Apollo Twin interface.
For instance, on my Cory Wong plugin, to get the ‘juice’ going into the amp sim, I now turn up my plugin input almost all the way. Is that wrong? I guess I’m not hearing much of a difference between feeding the input at the interface vs the plugin.
Please help me understand this better. I’m not saying Rabea is wrong, but it seems like we are just boosting the input in a different place.
IIRC the plugin input control is for edge cases like weird old synths and the like. So no, you probably shouldn’t be using that at all for guitar, because yeah - boosting at the interface or at plugin input will have the same effect, and affect how the amp sim responds.
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I am a heavy Cory user and I usually have my input on my interface at lowest and I compensate with the input in the amp sim GUI and use the output in the sim to control and manage gain staging in DAW.
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Wouldn’t compensating with the plugin input gain defeat the purpose of lowering the interface’s input gain since it would still boost the amp’s input unnaturally? I’m trying to understand this new concept; forgive me if that’s a dumb question.
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The input gain’s job on your audio interface is to send enough level into the plugin so it’s getting the signal level it expects, or was designed for. The gain has to be high enough that it’s well above the noise floor, and low enough to avoid digital clipping.
For guitar plugins to behave like the modeled amps, they must be driven from the audio interface at a level that would correspond to a guitar straight into the real amp. If the interface gain is too high, the amp will distort too quickly and you could risk digital clipping. If it is too low, the amp plugin will be cleaner than the real amp with the same settings.
Neural DSP plugins are expecting to see around -12 dB so you can adjust your audio interface gain control to get this level, with the plugin input gain set at 0 dB.
The input gain on your audio interface is before the A2D converter, while the input gain in the plugin is after the converter. Ideally both of these would be in their optimal operating range. That is, you don’t want the audio interface gain level so low that you are only using a few bits of resolution on the 16 to 24 bit interface. This will increase the noise floor and result in a low resolution, distorted guitar signal.
But you also don’t want that input gain to be so high that it’s clipping on peaks. Digital distortion is bad and should be carefully avoided.
So how should these two gains be adjusted? Perhaps a simple approach would be to set the input gain on your audio interface to get around -12 dB dBFS (using the meter on your audio interface), than then adjust the plugin input gain to get -12 dB into the plugin itself if needed.
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I think you’re overthinking it a bit (but you explained the concept very well!) - I would just use the analog input gain to get to that -12dB. I think it’s important that we (the modleing community as a whole) is now becoming wise to this idea that we’ve been overloading our plugins’ inputs, but I wouldn’t stress out too much about the noise floor and what minor tweaks may or may not affect it. If you were recording a quietly spoeken conversation for an episode of Game of Thrones or something, then it’d probably be a little more important to get ultra granular about this, but you’ve got the gist. Beyond that, trust your ears. Or, hell, you could even do some tests with a DAW and see which approach yields the best results.
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That’s not the first time I’ve been accused of overthinking something! But I agree, just set your interface gain to get around -12 dB in the NDSP plugins and don’t touch the plugin input gain. That will be close enough.
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