I haven’t done that many captures yet, but have some observations on how to use the instrument and capture input 1 levels.
For pedals, you typically set the gain, tone and volume of the pedal in the context of a signal chain, getting it to do what you want it to do in terms of saturation, volume boost/cut (who ever cuts?) and tone. So when capturing the pedal, you likely want to keep the instrument and capture levels at 0dB so the resulting capture block behaves the same way as the real pedal did in the same signal chain. The capture will have the same gain/saturation and volume with the capture block parameters set at 0dB. Then you can tweak from there.
But capturing amps is different, they need to be set to have the right amount of headroom, and avoid digital clipping. I did a little testing, and found that QC clean amp models (like the Twin) have a default level of around -12dB and clip at around -6dB on the output when you turn them all the way up. That leaves 6dB of headroom on the output to avoid engaging the output limiters. A guitar with single coil pickups at input 1 (or return 1), is around -18dB or so. So to have your amp+cab capture normalized to be similar to a QC amp models, you’d might want a clean capture in level to be around -12dB and a distorted capture to be around -6dB. In most cases, you’d leave the instrument level at 0dB so that the capture block produces the same saturation as the amp.
In summary:
When capturing pedals:
Set the pedal gain, tone and volume the way you want it in the signal chain
Move the pedal into the capture loop
Set instrument level to 0dB
Set capture in level to 0dB
Capture - the gain, and volume of the capture block will match the original pedal in the signal chain
When capturing amps:
Put the amp+cab+mic into the capture loop
Set the the gain, tone and volume on the amp way you want it
Position the mic on the cabinet to get the tone you want
Set instrument level to 0dB so the amp gain staging will be the same in the capture
Set capture in level to get the level meter to show -12dB for a clean amp and -6dB for a distorted amp
Capture - the gain/saturation, and volume of the capture block will match the original amp, and will have levels and headroom similar to the QC amps.
My direct captures (using a WAZA Tube Amp Expander as DI/Load box) are pretty disappointing.
Missing gain, dynamic response and clarity.
Obviously my IRs are disabled on the WAZA.
I’ll try again tonight, following some of the advices mentioned here : such as increasing the input to the point where it clips.
UPDATE : I captured my amp where it was just on the border of triggering an error during the sanity check. The result was much more convincing : more alive, more dynamic, more gain.
The issue I had, is I got some kind of oscillating sound in the lows, primarily noticeable when palm muting power chords. Will lower the input and capture again.
I think it’s really a matter of finding the correct level and we cannot rely on the auto level.
I’ve had stellar results with captures. That being said, I will often tweak settings 4 or 5 times, making separate captures each time, then keeping whatever sounds the best. I have yet to use the AUTO SET and just pay attention to the meters. I have noticed a slight gain reduction in the captures, so I push it a little more in the amp.
I’m so impressed with the captures that I listed my OX on Reverb and put my ENGL amp on Craig’s List.
I have exactly the same problem. When I try to make a capture of H&K Tubeman DI, I always get noticeably less gain. Overall tone is similar, but slightly scooped. I tried different settings INSTR LEVEL and IN 1LEVEL, but I always get about 5 db less gain in a capture.
No, it hasn’t been fixed yet. I am adding gain on my device before making a capture to fix this issue. David Maxim Micic told about this in this video at 10:22
This could be a really good solution if you have the possibility of increasing the gain however how about when you capture a vox ac30 with the volume 100%? or a treble booster in which you don’t have any controls and the gain is already set to max by default?
Hopefully they will fix this soon as makes life really hard if you just need an specific tone cloned
Thanks for the idea! I raised the overall quad cortex input gain and it is much closer to the original amp gain. It’s about the same level as what they recommend when capturing.
Last pedal I captured, I had Instrument Input at 5dB for the added gain
Then I set Input 1 high and progressively lower until it just passed the Sanity Check
That’s pretty much identical tone there
I did an earlier test where I did 8 captures reducing by1dB level each time
ie
7dB
6dB
…
0dB
The capture that was volume matched with the pedal was 4db,
BUT,
it’s tone sucked, the bottom end was gone, I hated it
The loudest capture however sounded bang on
Except I had to add 1dB to the bass and drop it -9.6dB, which I saved as default parameters
When I captured my Herbert CH1 with knobs @12 O’clock,
I boosted the bass to 2-3 O’clock
That came out perfect, no after bass boost needed
Thinking I might pick up the Source Audio EQ2 for adding targeted bass and gain before the item to capture.
Or something with a frequency analyser overlay would be even better
I wonder if the FM3 or Axe combines their parametric EQ with a frequency analyser?
I can’t tell from their pics available
Old thread but am having similar problems. I can only do di captures as no mikes at the moment. I’m finding the gain if the capture way down from the actual amp
Has neural provided any feedback on this? Is it a recognised issue?
@Bke - Send us an email support@neuraldsp.com, we can look into your issue and provide tips. Captures can take some experimentation before achieving the desired result.
The problem I was having was I would make a capture, when compete where you can swap between the source and the cortex they sounded fine, very very close, but after I saved and created a preset with the profile I needed to dime the gain to get to similar levels of gain I heard when profiling
Tried redoing all cabling etc using different setting etc but all the same. Checked all my levels and settings and all seemed fine.
Ended up doing a backup and system reset, first profile worked… no idea what the problem was but seems to be working now.
I’m in the process of creating many captures currently and i consistently have the same issue on 5 amps i’ve tried so far. The new capture is missing about 8db in input gain compared to the amp. I experimented with adding a clean booster in the capture loop and so i found out the exact amount of boost needed to compensated. This is as much gain difference on the input to make a crunch sound be like an edge of break-up sound. And edge of breakup becomes clean. Lowering or raising the Instrument level just makes the amp/capture cleaner or dirtier, but the gain different stays the same between amp and capture.
I tried adjusting the return 1 level to compensate, but this did not solve it.
It is possible to compensate, via outboard workarounds and get close, but i am wondering, if I would get better results with a proper setup. AS it is now, it is even hard to compare the capture to the real amp due to the severe gain diffeence. (Again without using a booster to compensate).
I just also tried system reset, without any change. All input/output levels on the cortex are on factory defaults.
My experience as well - haven’t measured how much gain is missing, but I typically end up quite a few DBs. And that’s not all, like I just wrote in another thread as well, I find that the low end lacks dynamicity (cause you kinda miss the rumble of the original) and everything sounds a bit more pristine than the original
What i perceive most tonally, even if i compebsate the 8db gain difference with a totally transparent boost, or by increasing the gain post factum, there is less of the midrange gain and complexity there and, yes, you hear more of the higher registers and the sound seems more brittle, less full and rounded. Talking about nuances, it is not like the captures are ‘bad’. I’ve tried all levels of input gain - closest to the linit of sanity check is little more rounded, but not as nice as the original. I am also talking about low to mid gain amps here.
In my experience it does not matter if i capture an amp on full gain or on the edge of break up, there is a difference in capturing via a mic or DI, microphones tend to be more accurate i.m.o. when I compare the capture to the setup, maybe more forgiving, in general you want to go as loud as possible, turning it down in increments if you go red, I find it hard to determine via my guitar what the best setting is for the capture, maybe a test tone would work better.
I’ve contacted the support (which has been great and quick on all questions thus far) a week ago about this issue, but there is radio silence.
I just want to find out, how i can get the same amount of gain in the DI captures i do as the reference amp.
Putting a 7-8db boost in the reamp loop helps, but as i do not know the details of the capturing process, i am afraid this might slam the amps with higher signals and create inaccurate captures. Meaning: maybe the capture is done at the right signal levels, but the loss of gain occurs after the capture process due to some internal setting.
I can compensate in the capture settings, but these are not transferred with the captures to other users.
It would be ideal if i could somehow just raise the gain by 8db on the captures by default.
So basically thus far i have not found a really good workaround. The booster might be an option, but i would like to hear from Neural, if this won’t skew the measurements.
Thanks for the quick reply, i will DM you right away. There was nothing in my spam folder either.
Just on the side note - i tried the solution a poster above had been recommended by the support - i made a backup and made a factory reset of the system. That did not change anything.
