Here’s where you can find it:
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Couple more tips:
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Presence and depth are on your power amp so if you have those on your engl amp - play with that. Reduce depth to make it less bass-ey.
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If you are using fx loop 1 the send 1 goes to front of your amp - use ONLY effects before the fx loop - no amp. Apply fx loop block.
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Get the fx “send” from your amp and plug in to the return 1 of QC. Use any amp models after the effects loop block on QC.
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See picture.
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Plug your out 3 in to the fx “return” of amp.
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Alternate method: I am not sure if this is the perfect way to do it - but you can skip all the fx loop crap and stick your out 3 in fx return - that way you are only using power amp of your amp. Plenty vids around this to get you all the way I hope now.
Guitar in QC input 1 and Out 3 in the fx “return” of amp - that will do it without the extra fx loops. Don’t plug *anything* in the front of your amp in this method. You are just using power amp of your amp to amplify your pre amp in QC - try simple method first then go 4 cable
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Aviraleads is correct, the chain you described is not right for the 4-cable method. The order should be:
Guitar to QC input
QC loop Send to amp front input
Amp FX loop Send to QC loop Return
QC out 3 or 4 to amp FX loop return
I’d recommend that if you’re using QC output 4, use the top FX send and returns, if using output 3, use the lower send and returns. That may not matter depending on your preset chain but it’s just a good habit to keep left and right consistant.
The only reason you had any sound at all is because you didn’t have an FX loop block in your chain.
Generally, the only reason to use the 4-cable method is to have the option of using the Fireball’s preamp section. This would require activating the QC’s loop and bypassing any amp blocks in your chain. For using an amp block in the QC, you’d bypass the QC’s loop to take the Fireball’s preamp out of the signal chain. This is just conventional thinking and I’m sure there are some folks doing otherwise. The cable connections need to be done as I described, to start.
Since the 4-cable method requires careful tweeking of FX send and return levels to match the “non-adjustable levels in the amp, I’d recommend starting by just plugging output 3 or 4 into the amp’s return for now. This 2-cable method would allow you to hear the QC without the complication of having the Fireball’s preamp in the chain. You can always try the 4 cable method later, after gaining a better understanding of the QC.
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First of all, I would like to extend a big thank you to everyone who contributed to this case. Your feedback was extremely helpful in getting everything sorted out (to my frustration, before reaching out to community I have raised a support case with Neural - 5 days later and after several reminders - no feedback at all, I have a real concern about support they offer, especially for newly introduced devices to the market).
A lot was shared here, including some mistakes on my side. To help others who may face a similar situation, I’ll summarize the key takeaways below.
To begin with the initial problem: when running QC into the return of the am’p’s FX loop, I experienced an unnaturally boomy sound. Tried to apply EQ it did not change anything.
That’s mistake 1. I have applied global EQ, but did not apply it to any of the outputs. Must be done like here: (see “Assigned” in green)
My go to EQ setting to eliminate low end frequencies is to set to High Pass filter on the level of 169 Hz. This is a generic configuration which works fine for the majority of presets via power amp of Engl Fireball 25 equipped with two KT77 tubes (similar to EL34s). Layering amp capture or model adds this boomy effect (presumably because a power amp of the model goes on top of power amp in the amplifier).
Short clip with EQ OFF:
and EQ ON:
While troubleshooting I have faced another issue running a preset via headphones, that’s Mistake 2: Global CAB/IR bypass also bypasses headphone out, therefore you can imagine the sound without a CAB, I wrongly assumed that bypass does not include headphones (why would you run a signal to the headphones without a CAB? definitely point for improvement for Neural).
Problem 2. Resonance and vibration in some of the presets. Reason - return of fx loop overload, solution - adjust your INPUT and OUTPUT levels (they might not necessarily be clipping (and never did for me), but might affect how amplifier is handling an input signal).
Then a 4 cable method….Mistake 3. Normal presets with INPUT and OUPUT won’t fly, a specific one with FX loop must be used to properly use the chain. Before implementing it fine tune your QC with a simple path:
Guitar > QC Input 1:
QC Output (3 or 4) > Amp FX return loop:
and nothing in front of an amp:
Then after this setup is fine tuned, it can be reconfigured to a 4 cable method and with proper presets in use. I like using preamp of Engl Fireball 25 with HM2 or Tubescreamer (I tested them next to another: QC capture and real one - it is almost impossible to tell apart which is which even sometimes a real one sounds dull compared to captue). So having an ability to switch back and forth between real amp and preset is nice. Point for improvement for Neural: factory capture must indicate settings, going over Cortex Cloud to dig into description is not always suitable.
Methods described above worked perfectly fine for me, you have to indeed adjust FX levels to avoid massive volume mismatch.
Using Return of FX loop on some of the amplifiers you may lose Master Volume control - so before trying out, bring volume down on QC, this is not the case for Fireball, you retain a control even if preamp swapping is done.
Case is closed with the help of the community (while no feedback from Neural).
Thanks again @xush @Aviraleads @PickinPete @SelfTitledLP !
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Glad you got it worked out to your satisfaction~!
However, NDSP Support is one of the best in the business- many here can attest to that. If you haven’t heard back in over 5 days, something’s wrong. You’ve checked all spam/trash filters? They usually respond by the next day, often on the same day. Also, the Mods here can escalate your case if for some reason your email didn’t get thru.
can’t beat this forum or the Discord channel though!
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Your biggest mistake was going straight into this complicated setup before just testing the unit as is. Check input level, load an amp block on its own (no cab block) and then just plug into the FX return. If that sounds fine, then add the loops. You don’t need the loop block if you’re only using the power amp section of the amp.
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Years ago, I had a 4-cable rig using a POD Pro (rack mount) and a 35 watt tube kit amp that I’d built. It took me literally months of tweeking and re-tweeking to get it dialed in to my satisfaction. That processor was primitive by today’s standards but, run into that amp, it was a great sounding rig. 4-cable can provide great benefits but it can take a lot of planning and programming to get you there.
Anyway, glad you have something workable now. There will be time to complicate things after you get comfortable with your Quad.
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I’m glad you got it sorted but all you needed to have done was to picture the signal flow in your head as you connected everything. You would have realised you need to have an FX loop block in every 4cm preset. You would then add blocks and configure scenes/ EQ etc. This has been my advice for years, ever since I used a Boss GT8 in 4cm in 2007.
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